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Calaspawn
12-24-2010, 08:27 AM
I wrote this as a comment on a fox news article, felt like starting a conversation here. I'm assuming most people over there are going to tell me I am oppressing Christians and I'll be banned by those tea party idiots soon.



Just because a majority of Americans celebrate Christmas doesn't mean that all Americans do. Christmas tends to overshadow all the other holidays of the season (Hanuka, Winter Solstice, etc) because it has become a time for corporations to make up for the sales they were lacking in the other 10 and a half months of the year. Most of the people celebrating Christmas shouldn't really call themselves real Christians, most Christians today are "casual Christians." They have never read the bible or looked into the religion itself, they just take it to mean whatever makes them feel good and have a set of beliefs somewhat similar to church philosophy. Most of them call themselves Christians because it's what everyone else is doing, it's easier to follow the crowd than to read up on things and decide what you want to do with your life.

I do give gifts at this time of year because it is fun, I do not celebrate Christmas though. I would be a hypocrite if I celebrated a religious holiday without being part of that religion. I hope everyone enjoys whatever holiday they are celebrating this time of year.




(edit: this is the article - http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/12/24/counter-cultural-christmas-year/#content )

NickF
12-24-2010, 09:21 AM
Christmas and Easter are the two most important Christian holidays of the year. In fact, they are justification for the very beliefs of Christians, the immaculate conception and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Therefore, immense celebration of the events is only natural. I just spent my last 3 paychecks on buying gifts, and just spent over $150 on Dunkin gift-cards for my coworkers. It is a Christian thing to do, to do things for others. There are several verses in the Bible which encourage giving to the needy. Churches collect toys and food to donate to families which cannot afford a nice Christmas for their children.

That being said, Christmas inn america has spread to non-Christians and even atheists. Is it really a bad thing to be especially kind and giving one a year? Is it really a bad thing to go out of your way to let someone know that you care about them and buy them a present? Is it really a bad thing to have a nice dinner with your family which you may not get to have during the year? I don't think that anyone can argue that it is. Yes Christmas is overly comericialized, and no we shouldn't hear about Christmas in ****ing October. Just ignore the retailer's bull**** and understand the "American" meaning of the Holiday (rather than the religious one). Give to others, and show them that you love them.

Also, who gives a rats ass about winter solstice? Why would you celebrate exceptionally long nights?
And "Hunuka", or Chanukah as it's actually called, is celebrated with equal enthusiasm amongst the Jewish community. There is quite a large one here in Waterbury, ct, and working at a grocery store I see it first hand. Along with passover, it is one of their most sacred holidays.

Calaspawn
12-24-2010, 09:32 AM
Christmas and Easter are the two most important Christian holidays of the year. In fact, they are justification for the very beliefs of Christians, the immaculate conception and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Therefore, immense celebration of the events is only natural. I just spent my last 3 paychecks on buying gifts, and just spent over $150 on Dunkin gift-cards for my coworkers. It is a Christian thing to do, to do things for others. There are several verses in the Bible which encourage giving to the needy. Churches collect toys and food to donate to families which cannot afford a nice Christmas for their children.

I am not against Christians celebrating Christmas, I think it is a great time of year and I think people should do whatever they want. This being said, don't think a religious holiday should be forced down peoples throats, try going to a store without hearing Christmas songs or having the cashier say "merry christmas" to you. I just don't like how they automatically assume I am a Christian, this is not a Christian nation.


That being said, Christmas inn america has spread to non-Christians and even atheists. Is it really a bad thing to be especially kind and giving one a year? Is it really a bad thing to go out of your way to let someone know that you care about them and buy them a present? Is it really a bad thing to have a nice dinner with your family which you may not get to have during the year? I don't think that anyone can argue that it is. Yes Christmas is overly comericialized, and no we shouldn't hear about Christmas in ****ing October. Just ignore the retailer's bull**** and understand the "American" meaning of the Holiday (rather than the religious one). Give to others, and show them that you love them.

I am all for spending time with family during the holidays. The fact that Christmas has spread to atheists and the likes is kind of sickening though, why celebrate an event you don't believe in? You can give gifts without celebrating a religious holiday.


Also, who gives a rats ass about winter solstice? Why would you celebrate exceptionally long nights?
And "Hunuka", or Chanukah as it's actually called, is celebrated with equal enthusiasm amongst the Jewish community. There is quite a large one here in Waterbury, ct, and working at a grocery store I see it first hand. Along with passover, it is one of their most sacred holidays.

I have a lot of friends (including my girlfriend) who have Pagan beliefs. The solstice is one of the most important holidays for Pagans, it actually matters a lot. Has to do with the rebirth of light and stuff, it's really interesting.


A 5th century Syrian writer had this to say about the change: "It was the custom of the heathen to celebrate on the same 25th of December the birthday of the Sun, at which [time] they kindled lights in token of festivity. In these solemnities and festivities the Christians also took part. Accordingly when the doctors of the Church perceived that the Christians had a leaning to this festival, they took counsel and resolved that the true nativity [of Christ] should be solemnized on that day."]


Most of the Christmas traditions that exist -- gift-giving, the hanging of the evergreens, Christmas trees, feasting, Santa, caroling -- all originated from Pagan practices. While I can understand that to some Christians this is a holy time of reflection as they celebrate their God, Christ, let us remember we were here first. And Christ is not the reason for the season. He's just a latecomer to the party.


Eventually, the church did try to crack down on these Christian pagan elements. During medieval times they banned gift-giving because of its Pagan origins. But Pope Paul II revived some of the most depraved customs of the ancient pagan festival and spun them with a Christian anti-semitic tradition. Those traditions were now used to target the Jews who were forced to run naked for Christian entertainment, and to the laughter of the pope. By the time we reach the 18th and 19th centuries, the Roman Catholic Church forced rabbis to wear clownish outfits while they were force-marched as the Catholic crowd pelted them. In 1881, Polish church authorities riled up the masses to anti-semitic riots across the country leading to the racist murders of Jews, as well as other physical and sexual assaults against others. The riots were so severe that millions of property was lost in addition to lives.

http://www.patheos.com/Resources/Additional-Resources/Christ-Is-NOT-the-Reason-for-the-Season.html?&showAll=1

arcanise
12-24-2010, 03:46 PM
im glad im pastafarian

Poon
12-24-2010, 08:15 PM
I am not against Christians celebrating Christmas, I think it is a great time of year and I think people should do whatever they want. This being said, don't think a religious holiday should be forced down peoples throats, try going to a store without hearing Christmas songs or having the cashier say "merry christmas" to you. I just don't like how they automatically assume I am a Christian, this is not a Christian nation.

Personally, I wouldn't care if someone said happy hanukkah, merry christmas, or happy kwanzaa to me. I just find it quite amusing when people get offended by any of those statements. As a result, it has become more politically correct to simply say happy holidays. Just even look at the front headline of this website. DSG said both merry Christmas and happy holidays. I feel it's quite strange to say both, but it certainly has become common to become politically correct since people like you are easily offended.



I am all for spending time with family during the holidays. The fact that Christmas has spread to atheists and the likes is kind of sickening though, why celebrate an event you don't believe in? You can give gifts without celebrating a religious holiday.

Why is it sickening that Christmas has spread to atheists? Just like you said, you can give gifts without celebrating a religious holiday. I know many non-Christians that take the giving aspect of Christmas and integrate it into their lives. Just because they follow the same idea doesn't mean that they have been converted into Christianity. Do you give and receive gifts around this time of the year?

Calaspawn
12-25-2010, 03:23 AM
Personally, I wouldn't care if someone said happy hanukkah, merry christmas, or happy kwanzaa to me. I just find it quite amusing when people get offended by any of those statements. As a result, it has become more politically correct to simply say happy holidays. Just even look at the front headline of this website. DSG said both merry Christmas and happy holidays. I feel it's quite strange to say both, but it certainly has become common to become politically correct since people like you are easily offended.

I don't get offended, it just annoys me that people assume that because they are doing something everyone is.



Why is it sickening that Christmas has spread to atheists? Just like you said, you can give gifts without celebrating a religious holiday. I know many non-Christians that take the giving aspect of Christmas and integrate it into their lives. Just because they follow the same idea doesn't mean that they have been converted into Christianity. Do you give and receive gifts around this time of the year?

I give gifts as an end of the year thing, Christmas spreading to non-Christians is the thing that bothers me. Gift giving isn't a Christmas thing, Christmas is a Christian holiday celebrating the birth of the son of god.

Zaund
12-25-2010, 11:12 AM
Christmas hasn't been a huge deal in my household for a few years now. A few gifts between the 3 of us. We're all working and never get to spend anytime together so just being in the house all at once is good enough. Most holidays are for economical stimulation anyways. Well nowa days at least :/

Merry Christmas GT! <33333

Edit: Forgot to add, none of us are Christian. My dads a Marine, Sister not sure but sure as hell isn't religious, and I don't believe in religion. But that's another thread xD

Irene
12-25-2010, 12:45 PM
It is the market that have created this demand.

Imagine there is this new Akazukin day. Stores are selling Akazukin figures and everyone just wish each other happy Akazukin. Chances are some people will buy one Akazukin figure and put it at home even if he don't believe in Akazukin. Then the age 9 idiot ask 'dad why celebrate Akazukin when you are not an Akazukian?' and then that confused dad look through history and true enough not everyone is Akazukian.

Zaund
12-26-2010, 04:12 AM
Maybe I can dial this down a little bit for you.

People buy things that you like. You wont know what it is. Because it will be wrapped in decorated metallic paper. But, to receive this gift you have to get that person something they like. Now this isn't always the rule. However it is likely you will not receive a gift from that person next year or if you do the value of the gift will probably drop. Now that you have obtained this gift (you have up until the night of December 24th), you should also wrap this gift in the decorated metallic paper I mentioned earlier. Once that is complete write the person's name on a tag fallowed by your name. Place this gift under the optional decorated coniferous tree next to the gift they obtained for you. On the morning of December 25th you and the person(s) can open each others presents. Most gifts from older family members (moms, dads, grandparents, aunts, uncles, sisters, brothers) will be a high value gift. Such as televisions, gaming systems, cell phones, computers, cars, vacations, you name it. This is where it gets good. Most of the older family members will be much better off and can help the younger family members financially. It's like raising your kid after they turn 18. For the younger people they can get away with simple things like baked goods, candies, low value gift cards, etc.

I guess, if you think about it. It's kinda like a game show or a lottery. So now who's the idiot?

Mookster
12-26-2010, 09:21 AM
Every religion hinges on fear, promise, and mob mentality. The way Christmas is celebrated in America, in a 'Christian for a day' fashion, forces you to be the non-Christian for the day. 'Makes it more obvious that there's a great divider between you and 90% of the people around you, which inevitably makes you feel "wrong" in some way, even if you believe otherwise consciously. Subconsciously you'll find yourself conflicted; your religion, a major source of self worth, sense of purpose, reinforcement of greater meaning, higher power, divine assistance, and even conceptual immortality (I don't know how you guys believe in this stuff) is now being threatened. In a way, your life (afterlife) is being threatened.
Religion is a big part of the reason people are flying planes into buildings, blowing themselves up in cars and on the streets. It used to be the number one reason to go to war. And now you're getting stirred up, and for what? Some stupid fairy tale.
It's ****ing nonsense and you should figure that out because you're smart enough to be sane.

xChinChillax
12-28-2010, 01:47 PM
if nothing else everyones a bit nicer around the holidays and go the extra mile

CrazyGerbilEater
12-28-2010, 02:37 PM
im always nice and go the extra mile to be an ******* to everyone, so much so im not sure hot to go an extra mile in that regard.

Christmas creates an obligation to give or to be extra nice, and thats all bull****. Giving a present just because your supposed to? Theres no merit in that to my eyes, nor in receiving one like that. Christmas music sucks balls too, I love classical stuff, but that **** is ****. My grandma gives me the evil eye because I'm OCD about what I eat, because they all cook the exact same thing as each other and leave me with nothing to eat but ****ty casserole or something. I get the evil eye because I'm not going to lie and say **** doesn't taste like ****, I'm not going to eat it, **** that! If I think about it, my mothers side of that family is all like that, and if i think more upon it, their probaly all giving me the evil eye in the back, **** them, Christmas just strains our already strained relationships with our family and then drags it out into a painful act, making us all pretend we are saints just the "be in the christmas spirit". **** the holidays, their just a legitimate day off of work.

Squid
12-30-2010, 08:31 AM
I haven't read through everything above, but what's with changing Santa to Frosty the Snowman? Are non-Christians really that butt-hurt over Christmas history? They can take it or leave it, but stop trying to ruin it for the rest of our kids.