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Intangir
09-25-2008, 07:12 AM
who do you think is responsible

Deg™
09-25-2008, 07:23 AM
Anyone who thinks our government did it is completely retarded.

JLTucker
09-25-2008, 07:30 AM
I cast my vote but I am staying out of this one because I have a high intolerance for Twoofers.

K? Pŕo?ćtiόnŹ
09-25-2008, 07:37 AM
You really think its that ****ing difficult for someone to high jack a plane? You really think it would have taken billions of dollars and government insight to hijack a ****ing plane? And motive? They're terrorists, its what they do.

Intangir
09-25-2008, 07:49 AM
this explains alot of it with more patience than i have

Loose Change Final Cut (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3719259008768610598)

Irene
09-25-2008, 07:49 AM
The terrorists.

K? Pŕo?ćtiόnŹ
09-25-2008, 07:52 AM
Loose change was already debunked, dont try and pull that **** here.

Screw Loose Change (http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/)

Intangir
09-25-2008, 07:58 AM
oh well i guess theres no reason to research it yourself, just go back to sleep im sure bush loves you very much

K? Pŕo?ćtiόnŹ
09-25-2008, 08:12 AM
Because I'm sure you've done A LOT of research yourself instead of believing what you want and reading all those ****ing conspiracy blogs to further your retarded ideas.

And are you denying that any information in Loose change was debunked?

Go back to sleeping in YOUR dream world you dumb ****.

Intangir
09-25-2008, 09:47 AM
that sounds like what your doing

we can discuss debunking if you want to actually DISCUSS it rather than just throw insults and cuss words

have you seen the final cut?

el-camino-ss
09-25-2008, 09:51 AM
Gov did it for a reason to go to war.
My thoughts at least.

Deg™
09-25-2008, 10:02 AM
All of those shockumentaries like Loose Change and Zeitgeist are not creditable. Either find real support for those claims, or shut up about them.

Intangir
09-25-2008, 10:07 AM
just watch any video of WTC7 going down and then compare it to any other planned demolition building

if that doesnt make you think, you do not have a brain in your head, period

im surprised a guy who uses guy fawkes as his avatar is so clueless as to what a false flag attack is

NickF
09-25-2008, 10:08 AM
Yeah, of course it was the government. It couldn't be the terrorist cells from the middle east. We only had a puppet government in Iran and Suadi Arabia, gave WMD's to Saddam and then invaded his country 4 years ago, fund the hell out of Israel who is hated by its neighboring countries and on top of all that, we still ahve troops stationed in their holy land, MEcca. Just because we are hated by these islamic extremists is no reason to believe they would do anything to kill americans like they have been doing since the 1980s.

EDIT: LOOSE CHANGE DEBUNKED
“Loose Change” Debunked (http://www.america.gov/st/pubs-english/2007/March/20070330134723abretnuh0.9919245.html)

Shade
09-25-2008, 10:22 AM
All of those shockumentaries like Loose Change and Zeitgeist are not creditable. Either find real support for those claims, or shut up about them.

Please define what you mean by 'real support'. Some guy's blog with a title like 'Screw Loose Change' sure does seem like credible information to me. Also, the counter-evidence provided in the top 3 reasons why one cannot trust Loose Change is humorous at best.

I'm not trying to say that Loose Change is a credible source, but simply that it is just as credible as the source used to 'debunk' the theory presented in the film.

There is nothing wrong with speculation, either. Even if Intagir and the Loose Change crew are wrong, it is not fair to attack them ad hominem. That is not addressed to you specifically, Degausser, but to others who have made comments of such nature.

Intangir
09-25-2008, 10:37 AM
Yeah, of course it was the government. It couldn't be the terrorist cells from the middle east. We only had a puppet government in Iran and Suadi Arabia, gave WMD's to Saddam and then invaded his country 4 years ago, fund the hell out of Israel who is hated by its neighboring countries and on top of all that, we still ahve troops stationed in their holy land, MEcca. Just because we are hated by these islamic extremists is no reason to believe they would do anything to kill americans like they have been doing since the 1980s.

EDIT: LOOSE CHANGE DEBUNKED
“Loose Change” Debunked (http://www.america.gov/st/pubs-english/2007/March/20070330134723abretnuh0.9919245.html)



well im glad it worked out for them then huh?

oh wait it didnt, it only benefitted their enemies and gave them more power than ever before

Ghost-Flight
09-25-2008, 10:49 AM
Neo Conservatives

Etra
09-25-2008, 11:01 AM
There is no 9/11 conspiracy you morons. (http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons)

Main argument:
The fact that this man is alive...
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/images/dylan_avery_big.jpg
...is proof that "Loose Change" is bull****.

Here's why:

1. The man in the picture above is Dylan Avery. To be more precise, the fact that Dylan, his friends, and family are alive, is proof that "Loose Change" is bull****. He, along with a couple of his friends, created a 9/11 conspiracy video claiming that the US government and the military caused 9/11. Take a closer look at the last part of that last sentence: he's claiming that the US government, for whatever ends, killed nearly 3,000 innocent Americans, and tens if not hundreds of thousands of more lives in the conflicts that ensued because of it.

2. Since Dylan's arguing that the government has no problem killing 3,000 innocent people, this raises the question: if his documentary is true, and we've established that the government has no ethical qualms about killing thousands of its own people, then why wouldn't the government kill Avery and his friends as well? What's a few more lives to them to ensure the success of this conspiracy?

Whatever reason it may be that the government supposedly orchestrated this conspiracy, it must have been worth it to them to cause so much suffering and loss of life. So if there's any truth to this, then you can bet your ass that the government wouldn't let a couple of pecker-neck chumps with a couple of Macs and too much time on their hands jeopardise their entire operation by letting this stupid video float around on the Internet. I can picture you morons emailing me now: "BUT MADOX, MAYBE DYLAN POSTED IT ON THE INTERNET BEFORE THE GOVERNMENT HAD A CHANCE TO REMOVE IT LOL." Yeah, too bad this rebuttal is inconsistent with the premise of Dylan's ****-festival of a movie: that the WTC was brought down "in a carefully planned and controlled demolition ... and it was pulled off with military precision." Now we're expected to believe that the same government that was able to commit the largest terrorist operation in history--with military precision no less--is suddenly too incompetent to sniff out and shut down a little website set up by some college losers within days, if not minutes of its creation? The US government has the capability to monitor every electronic communication made anywhere in the world, yet we're expected to believe that they wouldn't be able to nix this kid long before his video ever became popular?

I win. There is no conspiracy. Eat my ****, losers.

The following three links are credible sources that debunk Loose Change and other 9/11 conspiracy theories.
NIST's Investigation of the Sept. 11 World Trade Center Disaster - Frequently Asked Questions (http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm)
Debunking the 9/11 Myths: Special Report - Popular Mechanics (http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html)
Loose Change 2nd Edition Viewer Guide (http://www.loosechangeguide.com/LooseChangeGuide.html)

Shin666
09-25-2008, 11:20 AM
World Trade Center, 1993 Terrorist Attack (don't say it too loudly - Yousef had IRAQI passport) (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1698239/posts)

i'll just leave this here...

edit: 1993 World Trade Center bombing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center_bombing) for pictures

personal opinion: I'm sure it would have been alot easier to hijack a plane in 93 then it was in 01

Deg™
09-25-2008, 11:21 AM
God, i love Maddox. Logic at it's finest.

Zhuinden
09-25-2008, 11:45 AM
Gov did it for a reason to go to war.
My thoughts at least.

Exactly. That is my thought. To make people fear terrorism more and to be able to claim and make people believe that Iraq terrorists are building nuclear weapons in the middle of the desert out of camel poop.

People who fear terrorism are easily manipulated through that fear.

Intangir
09-25-2008, 11:58 AM
its looking like about 50% so far

Sinz
09-25-2008, 12:01 PM
you know who was behind 9/11

IT WAS TEH JAPS
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/jigsawxyouth83/seaking.jpg

Ghost-Flight
09-25-2008, 12:04 PM
Just watch all of YouTube - The Power of Nightmares: Baby it's Cold Outside Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjY_E7bYDVw)

IversonAli3
09-25-2008, 02:19 PM
Let's keep this thread clean. I know its hard for some of you to prove your point without taking personal shots at people with a conflicting belief, especially on an apparently controversial topic like this.

Follow these 2 rules and you just might be able to pull off the illusion of knowing what youre talking about.
1. Logical, rationalized approach to attacking someones idea. Systematically demolish that persons argument, leaving no hint of emotional involvement or sentiment in the air.
2. Back yourself up with a credible, up to date source if you want to bring something new to the table. No one cares about what some douche has to say on his blog or in an amateur YouTube video.

On topic, I believe the people who carried out 9/11 were indeed foreign terrorists belonging to, or at least associated with Al-Qaeda. They had the motive, the means, and the history. It would be nearly impossible logistically for a domestic government agency to pull this off.
What motive would they have had? Can you imagine the repercussions if one person leaked the truth? No civilian or military agency has a sustainable level of secrecy that high. The war was a huge display of a lack of organization, preparedness and impulsiveness at the highest levels of the government. The cost to benefit ratio of going to war for oil would have been analyzed well in advance, and it would have been thrown out as a catastrophic loss of money. Just think about it.

Intangir
09-25-2008, 02:39 PM
just an fyi, the guy who founded the alqueada is obamas #1 advisor (handler)
and thats the LEAST of the stuff hes been involved in

Zbigniew Brzezinski - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zbigniew_Brzezinski)

Raistlin
09-25-2008, 03:21 PM
If you believe the government was behind 9-11, I strongly suggest you read the study by Popular Mechanics which thoroughly debunks the Loose Change film.

Deg™
09-25-2008, 06:25 PM
Simply put, a structural failure at a high level in the building does not a tipped over building make, but the impact force was enough to destabilize the building and cause a downward domino effect, where the compiling weight of each level of the building knocks the next one down.

NickF
09-25-2008, 06:52 PM
Exactly. That is my thought. To make people fear terrorism more and to be able to claim and make people believe that Iraq terrorists are building nuclear weapons in the middle of the desert out of camel poop.

People who fear terrorism are easily manipulated through that fear.

There are honestly that many of you that think our government would kill 3,000 of its own citizens, cause hundreds of billions if not trillions of dollars in losses and damages, just so they can go overseas to spend trillions more dollars in fighting 2 wars? Its kind of sickening, actually.

loop-hole
09-25-2008, 07:30 PM
hey dumbass next time don't make the poll so obviously 1 sided maybe people wouldn't get so mad then? also i don't think the government did it that's all i got to say


you know who was behind 9/11

IT WAS TEH JAPS
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/jigsawxyouth83/seaking.jpg


OMG look at teh pics it must be true!!

Super
09-25-2008, 07:34 PM
The Jews. They voted for Pat Buchanan by accident instead of Al Gore on the Floridian butterfly ballots. This caused Bush to win and WTC to happen.

6satan6archist6
09-25-2008, 07:48 PM
Anyone who thinks our government did it is completely retarded.


You know, the idea of the government being responsible for deaths of its' own citizens isn't that far fetched. Take for instance the sinking of the Lucitania which brought the US into WWI. The ship, carrying US citizens was intentionally sent into German controlled waters by the US government. They did this knowing that any ship that wasn't of German origin would be torpedoed, which it was. Before the sinking of the ship the American public was reluctant into supporting US involvement in the conflict. However, after the sinking of the Lucitania, and the loss of hundreds of American lives, the government recieved carte blanche to to enter into the war. Does this sound familiar in anyway?

el-camino-ss
09-25-2008, 08:35 PM
There are honestly that many of you that think our government would kill 3,000 of its own citizens, cause hundreds of billions if not trillions of dollars in losses and damages, just so they can go overseas to spend trillions more dollars in fighting 2 wars? Its kind of sickening, actually.

Not the first time our GOV has hurt us.

Agent Orange - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_Orange#U.S._Vietnamese_victims_class_action_ lawsuit)

Intangir
09-26-2008, 06:34 AM
If you believe the government was behind 9-11, I strongly suggest you read the study by Popular Mechanics which thoroughly debunks the Loose Change film.

i have read it, have you?
it is the most absurd thing ive read on the subject, they address NOTHING correctly, ignore MASSIVE problems and even ignore how the building was built

i think they even TOTALLY IGNORED WTC7 which is the most glaring issues

Intangir
09-26-2008, 07:31 AM
you changed the wording of the options

if you think the government do it you might be confused to see another option named terrorists.. because the government ARE the terrorists

they are the ones who threaten fear force and reprisal if we dont go along with what they are saying we have to do

just look at bushes speech LAST NIGHT
thats text book terrorism, pass this bill NOW that gives us 100% immunity and zero review or your economy and your country will crash

K? Pŕo?ćtiόnŹ
09-26-2008, 08:00 AM
you changed the wording of the options

if you think the government do it you might be confused to see another option named terrorists.. because the government ARE the terrorists

they are the ones who threaten fear force and reprisal if we dont go along with what they are saying we have to do

just look at bushes speech LAST NIGHT
thats text book terrorism, pass this bill NOW that gives us 100% immunity and zero review or your economy and your country will crashShouldn't the loose change guys be dead now? For not going along?

Raistlin
09-26-2008, 09:23 AM
i have read it, have you?
it is the most absurd thing ive read on the subject, they address NOTHING correctly

The reality is that two screwballs made a film full of blatantly incorrect premises and assertions, and then popular mechanics came along and addressed those claims with scientific expertise. Where do you find popular mechanics lacking, specifically? They did address WTC7 (not sure why you thought they didn't) - and does the publication have to debunk every single idiotic claim made by the conspiracy theorists for you to realize that they are full of ****? When someone is proven to be wrong about nearly everything they say, I tend to take the rest of their words with a grain of salt as well.

Who do I believe, the two college students whose claims have been shot down and whose very existence refutes the notion that our government is involved in a conspiracy and is willing to kill Americans to perpetuate that conspiracy, or the respected publication that presents scientific expertise in consultation with over 300 experts and organizations to support its case?

JLTucker
09-26-2008, 10:03 AM
So a friend of mine talked to intangir earlier. Here is part of the chat log:

uoysevolsbunk: and you are wrong about the popular mechanics study
uoysevolsbunk: they addressed wtc 7
Intangir2003: well i raed it like 6 years ago
uoysevolsbunk: it was published in 2005
Intangir2003: but i remember it basically ignoring all the most compelling questions
Intangir2003: thats the 2nd version, the first one was published right after 9/11
uoysevolsbunk: Debunking the 9/11 Myths: Special Report - Popular Mechanics (http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=5#wtc7)
Intangir2003: and the first one i am pretty sure didnt address wtc7
uoysevolsbunk: I don't expect you to change your opinion after you read that
uoysevolsbunk: you'll probably say the photos have been doctored
...
...
Intangir2003: ya this is the same crap they said before
Intangir2003: the building isnt scooped out
uoysevolsbunk: so you disagree with the experts they interviewed?
Intangir2003: there was a man who was evacuating the building after the first two had collapse, the fires were almost out
Intangir2003: he said there were alot of bodies
Intangir2003: he just got murdered a few days ago
uoysevolsbunk: link?
uoysevolsbunk: you know, you sound a lot like creationists
uoysevolsbunk: they ignore the words from experts
Intangir2003: Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind! (http://www.infowars.com/?p=4349)
Intangir2003: the 'experts' agree 9/11 was an inside job
uoysevolsbunk: bull****
uoysevolsbunk: list these experts
Intangir2003: Steven E. Jones; A Physics Professor Speaks Out on 9-11 (http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/jones/StevenJones.html)
Intangir2003: AE911Truth (http://www.ae911truth.org/)
...
...
Intangir2003: AE911Truth (http://www.ae911truth.org/)
Intangir2003:this site has alot of good info right on the front page
uoysevolsbunk: that guy killed himself
uoysevolsbunk: oh
uoysevolsbunk: you think the government covered it up
Intangir2003: Steven E. Jones; A Physics Professor Speaks Out on 9-11 (http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/jones/StevenJones.html)
Intangir2003: ya read his 'suicide' note
Intangir2003: what a load of ****

Intangir
09-26-2008, 10:34 AM
this is why when the truth will be right infront of your eyes, it will be scumbags like you who try to play spy on tattle on your constitution loving neighbors

Stasi secret police wanna be

i shouldve known youd be lame enough to try something lame like this, but even still look at what i said, i did paste some valid links


i also notice you left alot of stuff out, apparently the lies that your friend made about some other site and some of my comments as well

Irene
09-26-2008, 10:34 AM
Hi, I have a comment, not good at writing but I'm trying.

I have studied Iraq's history. Saddam Hussein Took power by killing his rivals. Iraq doesn't hold good weapons, but the large amount of people gave it an advantage.

After that, Iraq attacks Iran. After a long battle, Iraq suffers economic problems. Iraq then attacks Kuwat, a place with large oil supplies. Finally, Iraq claims that Kuwat is no longer kuwat, and claims that the oil factory all belonged to Iraq.

The UN (20+ countries alliance), completely disagree, probably because that oil factory is also part of their economy.They attack back, resulted in the gulf war. It's actually a sure-win, Iraq's gunboat vs those high tech weapons.

Later, Iraq builts OSIRAK in 1970s , a facility to research on nuclear weapons.
Osirak - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osirak)

Israeli have bomb that facility with aircraft.

After that, US president received warnings that he will be killed, and terrorist treats. He then order US troops to search for nuclear weapons in Iraq. He found noting.

Finally, people began to think that it's the government who wants to gain access to the oil factory, and they plotted a fake terrorist attack. However, History should be able to prove that the US still have a reason to search for nuclear weapons even without 9/11.

Deg™
09-26-2008, 10:41 AM
Hi, I have a comment, not good at writing but I'm trying.

I have studied Iraq's history. Saddam Hussein Took power by killing his rivals. Iraq doesn't hold good weapons, but the large amount of people gave it an advantage.

After that, Iraq attacks Iran. After a long battle, Iraq suffers economic problems. Iraq then attacks Kuwat, a place with large oil supplies. Finally, Iraq claims that Kuwat is no longer kuwat, and claims that the oil factory all belonged to Iraq.

The UN (20+ countries alliance), completely disagree, probably because that oil factory is also part of their economy.They attack back, resulted in the gulf war. It's actually a sure-win, Iraq's gunboat vs those high tech weapons.

Later, Iraq builts OSIRAK in 1970s , a facility to research on nuclear weapons.
Osirak - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osirak)

Israeli have bomb that facility with aircraft.

After that, US president received warnings that he will be killed, and terrorist treats. He then order US troops to search for nuclear weapons in Iraq. He found noting.

Finally, people began to think that it's the government who wants to gain access to the oil factory, and they plotted a fake terrorist attack. However, History should be able to prove that the US still have a reason to search for nuclear weapons even without 9/11.

Strangely, i agree with you. Claiming 9/11 as an 'excuse' to start a war is bull****; we had more than enough reasons to attack Iraq and Afghanistan anyway.

JLTucker
09-26-2008, 11:03 AM
this is why when the truth will be right infront of your eyes, it will be scumbags like you who try to play spy on tattle on your constitution loving neighbors
Of course you have evidence that I was playing spy, right? My friend was being serious. He isn't entirely convinced on whether or not the government was behind 9/11.


i shouldve known youd be lame enough to try something lame like this, but even still look at what i said, i did paste some valid links

Valid only to conspiracy theorists.


i also notice you left alot of stuff out, apparently the lies that your friend made about some other site and some of my comments as well

I only left in the relevant bits about 9/11, which this thread is about. The rest is irrelevant.

What lies? My friend told no lies. The other site is indeed real and does require a non-free email account to register because of prior board invasions.

JamesUsher
09-26-2008, 11:39 AM
Anyone who thinks our government did it is completely retarded.

It was the government. But plese explain why you think it is so impossible that our government did it?. I mean was there weapons of mass destruction in Iraq,NO. 9/11 was just a reason for the american people to feel ok about going over there.

Calaspawn
09-26-2008, 03:00 PM
It was the terrorists. Saying otherwise is an insult to the people who died in the attacks and the soldiers fighting today.

KenshinHimura
09-26-2008, 03:22 PM
It was the terrorists. Saying otherwise is an insult to the people who died in the attacks and the soldiers fighting today.

Saying that disagreeing and questioning popular belief is an insult to the people who died in the attacks and the soldiers fighting today is an insult to the people who died in the attacks and the soldiers fighting today AND every other person who made this country possible.

Freedom of speech = Freedom to question everything. Most of the people who research this topic are passionate about it - they want to know more because they care about this country and those who have died in the attacks.

Don't insult someone like this for using free speech.

Calaspawn
09-26-2008, 03:35 PM
Saying that disagreeing and questioning popular belief is an insult to the people who died in the attacks and the soldiers fighting today is an insult to the people who died in the attacks and the soldiers fighting today AND every other person who made this country possible.

Freedom of speech = Freedom to question everything. Most of the people who research this topic are passionate about it - they want to know more because they care about this country and those who have died in the attacks.

Don't insult someone like this for using free speech.

I am exercising my free speech by telling others that they are wrong. I didn't insult anyone.

Deg™
09-26-2008, 04:07 PM
Freedom of speech means freedom to disagree.

Intangir
09-26-2008, 04:35 PM
Freedom of speech means freedom to disagree.

who are you and what have you done with Degausser?

Belphegor
09-26-2008, 04:39 PM
Freedom of speech means freedom to disagree.You finally get it. :)

Deg™
09-26-2008, 06:35 PM
I've gotten it this whole time, but i disagree with the whole premise of Intangir spewing his conspiracy theories here. Also, you aren't guaranteed your rights as an American citizen outside of America, and our servers are hosted in Germany; so **** off.

Intangir
09-26-2008, 06:58 PM
can anyone tell me why this guy is an admin?

NickF
09-26-2008, 08:10 PM
I still don't understand how half of those who read this think the government did it...
If we were talking about Pearl Harbor on the other hand, this would be a different story. Pearl Harbor is much easier to conspire about than 9/11 because its totally ridiculous that NO ONE would see the Japanese coming, not to mention that I've heard the code was cracked long before pearl harbor. I have no credible sources, just word of mouth. Anyone wanna argue that point?

Intangir
09-26-2008, 09:00 PM
i would but its far less relevant TODAY than 9/11 the men who benefited most from 9/11 are still in power

K? Pŕo?ćtiόnŹ
09-27-2008, 01:58 AM
Who benefited and what did they get?

K? Pŕo?ćtiόnŹ
09-27-2008, 02:06 AM
Alright so quoting from Popular mechanics tell me what you think about this.

Claim: "It has been standard operating procedures for decades to immediately intercept off-course planes that do not respond to communications from air traffic controllers," says the Web site oilempire.us. "When the Air Force 'scrambles' a fighter plane to intercept, they usually reach the plane in question in minutes."

FACT: In the decade before 9/11, NORAD intercepted only one civilian plane over North America: golfer Payne Stewart's Learjet, in October 1999. With passengers and crew unconscious from cabin decompression, the plane lost radio contact but remained in transponder contact until it crashed. Even so, it took an F-16 1 hour and 22 minutes to reach the stricken jet. Rules in effect back then, and on 9/11, prohibited supersonic flight on intercepts. Prior to 9/11, all other NORAD interceptions were limited to offshore Air Defense Identification Zones (ADIZ). "Until 9/11 there was no domestic ADIZ," FAA spokesman Bill Schumann tells PM. After 9/11, NORAD and the FAA increased cooperation, setting up hotlines between ATCs and NORAD command centers, according to officials from both agencies. NORAD has also increased its fighter coverage and has installed radar to monitor airspace over the continent.
Please explain to me how what popular mechanics wrote is wrong.

Zhuinden
09-27-2008, 02:39 AM
There are honestly that many of you that think our government would kill 3,000 of its own citizens, cause hundreds of billions if not trillions of dollars in losses and damages, just so they can go overseas to spend trillions more dollars in fighting 2 wars? Its kind of sickening, actually.

Nope, what I said is that it is one of those things that you do for "Protecting your own country from terrorism". The main reason behind the destruction of the WTC is to make people fear terrorism, and thus act to minimalize such. However, exploiting this, the government can easily control the mass of people through the fear.


It was the terrorists. Saying otherwise is an insult to the people who died in the attacks and the soldiers fighting today.

Let's blame it on the terrorists to not insult the dead and those who applied for a job knowing they'll die, shall we? You guys didn't watch ReGenesis 2nd Season either, eh. They show precisely in the last episode how that stuff goes.

For those who didn't see: The main chars who are researchers of genetics realized something that wasn't supposed to be known, and the government/CIA sent in a person to blow the whole laboratory up with the main chars as well. The last sentence of the episode was a news report that terrorists blew up the laboratory, and thus this is a huge loss for all humanity, and that this crime must never happen again etc. stuff like that. I don't remember exactly.

It's obvious that the government could have done it. If it was them or not, who knows. I think it was them. 3000 people in an X-million population country to be able to control that X-million isn't a big price for someone who just sits in the white house and says "LET'S NUKE EM UP!".

6satan6archist6
09-27-2008, 09:01 AM
Strangely, i agree with you. Claiming 9/11 as an 'excuse' to start a war is bull****; we had more than enough reasons to attack Iraq and Afghanistan anyway.

Dude you are a complete idiot. We did not have enough reason to invade Iraq, in fact we had no reason at all. After the gulf war, Iraq's military was severely crippled and posed no threat at all. There is no way that the could have been making nukes. Even if they had the ability to produce them, they still didn't have a way to launch them all the way over here. Saddam Hussien was crazy, but he wasn't stupid. He knew that attacking the US would be a very stupid idea becasue he already got his ass kicked one time. Even before 9/11 the government was looking for any reason to invade Iraq. The attacks on the WTC just happend to provide the perfect smoke screen. Anybody who has studied the subject can tell you that Iraq had absolutely no ties to Al Qaeda. A dictator like Sadam working with a terrorist group like Al Qaeda makes no sense. The only portion of Iraq that did have terrorist cells was the north eastern part, but he really had no control over that area. This has been, and always will be about money. Despite what you hear on the news this war is not about fighting a war on terrorism. You can't fight a war on terrorism, and certainly can't win a war on terrorism. Do you really think one day someone is gonna come on Fox new or something and say "That's it, we won, all the terrorists are dead."? No it isn't going to happen and anyone who believes it will is incredibly stupid and should be executed for such a grevious breach of intelligence. Finally, if you think about it, isn't war just terrorism with a higher budget?

NickF
09-27-2008, 10:18 AM
Nope, what I said is that it is one of those things that you do for "Protecting your own country from terrorism". The main reason behind the destruction of the WTC is to make people fear terrorism, and thus act to minimalize such. However, exploiting this, the government can easily control the mass of people through the fear.
So you are saying Our government would kill 3,000 of its own citizens and cause trillions of dollars in damages so it could insite fear into its citizens before some terrorist group could?

Btw Thanks KC.

hellinsect
09-27-2008, 01:54 PM
Of course the government would blow up the world trade center. After all they can discredit any one who disagrees with them because they aren't smart because they didn't go to college. Anyone who does go to college gets payed about 10 times what you and I get paid because the companies have to hire them to get loans or grants of any kind. Any so call expert that believes the government is evil looses their job. Why, so they can take away all rights and enslave everyone including the so called experts. The number one requirement to get any expert job is a degree. I could program with my eyes closed but would not do a company much good without a degree because their grants are based on this fact.

Otaku
09-27-2008, 01:56 PM
Of course the government would blow up the world trade center. After all they can discredit any one who disagree with them because they aren't smart because they didn't go to college. Anyone who does go to college gets payed about 10 times what you and I get paid because the companies have to hire them to get loans or grants of any kind. Any so call expert that believes the government is evil looses their job. Why, so they can take away all rights and enslave everyone including the so called experts?

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

And how would you know this?

edit: gotta be a troll.

Raistlin
09-27-2008, 02:22 PM
We did not have enough reason to invade Iraq, in fact we had no reason at all.

Actually, the first Gulf War ended with a ceasefire in which Saddam agreed to certain terms in order to stay in power. He then systematically violated those terms and we gave him a full decade to comply before resuming hostilities.

Mookster
09-27-2008, 02:23 PM
Our society thrives on the oppression of quite a many poverty stricken countries. It's not unforeseeable that a few factions may get together and send a little "**** you" in the direction of the most ignorant and arrogant one of them all. Certainly helped alot of people realize how ****ed up world economy is.
We're all responsible.

Otaku
09-27-2008, 02:30 PM
Anyone who does go to college gets payed about 10 times what you and I get paid because the companies have to hire them to get loans or grants of any kind.

Do you work for $20 a day?

hellinsect
09-27-2008, 02:52 PM
Do you work for $20 a day?
Computer Science Majors and other Science Majors all start at 80,000 dollars a year min + 3 weeks vacation + free health care. This is after 4 years of college.

I saw companies bagging to hire people that hardly knew anything about programing just because they had a degree.

6satan6archist6
09-27-2008, 03:01 PM
For all those who think the US government would kill its' own citizens Kent State shootings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_massacre)

Calaspawn
09-27-2008, 03:03 PM
For all those who think the US government would kill its' own citizens Kent State shootings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_massacre)

hippies...

Otaku
09-27-2008, 03:18 PM
Computer Science Majors and other Science Majors all start at 80,000 dollars a year min + 3 weeks vacation + free health care. This is after 4 years of college.

I saw companies bagging to hire people that hardly knew anything about programing just because they had a degree.

Do you earn $8000 a year?

What companies? Especially in this economy. :rolleyes:

Also, you don't have to be smart to go to college; conversely, you don't have to go to college if you're smart. Yes, I do feel like I have to explain this to you.

And, again, how would you know this?

hellinsect
09-27-2008, 04:27 PM
I am a going to college to get my Computer Science Degree. I had the chance to talk to the Computer Science Majors that are graduating and the teachers and representatives from the companies.

There is a company in my area that hires every CS grad and starts them out at 80,000 a year. I am taking the word of their representatives, students that worked for them and teachers. There is also a Physic Company that does disaster testing and they hired all the Physics Majors and paid them similarly high amounts.

Edit: The government pays me 642 dollars to go to collage each semester. Money I don't have to pay back ever. This is after all my classes where completely payed for by grants.

Now they are offering me $1750 of interest free loans and $1000 at 6 percent PER SEMESTER! And no money payed back until 6 months after I graduate 4 years from now.

They do this for everyone that is in the top %50 percent of high school and that comes from a low income family.

Otaku
09-27-2008, 05:33 PM
Holy ****, the government wants people to be educated?

Names of the companies and links, please.


Any so call expert that believes the government is evil looses their job. Why, so they can take away all rights and enslave everyone including the so called experts.


The number one requirement to get any expert job is a degree. I could program with my eyes closed but would not do a company much good without a degree because their grants are based on this fact.

:confused:

hellinsect
09-27-2008, 06:20 PM
Dude, if you want to know how it is to be a CS student, go to collage.
digikey (http://dkc1.digikey.com/US/CAREERS/Careers.html) is near where I live and they hire a lot of people. Blizzard (http://www.blizzard.com/us/jobopp/o-software-engineer.html) and many other companies will not hire you unless you got a CS degree or tons of references and experience. The government and banks give loans and grants to these companies based on whether they hire people with these degrees.

Most degrees leave the college student broke, in debt or stuck with a teaching job that has large union fees. Even if you don't have crap to do at your job, a person with a CS degree or a physics degree is given the best treatment. I believe this is because they can see the obvious violations on the periodic table and problems in the terrorists events and other need to rely what others say.

Zhuinden
09-28-2008, 01:39 AM
Educated people are harder to control. That's why the public education in the USA is horrid.

DSG
09-28-2008, 01:51 AM
Personally I know the terrorists did it, but I don't think our governments hands are totally clean. I think they knew about it and ignored it, credible intel or not, it should have been taken seriously. Either that, or the intel community or Bush administration let it happen. Thats my 2 cents on this whole thing.


Educated people are harder to control. That's why the public education in the USA is horrid.

QFT. And the 'No Child Left Behind Act' made it that much worse. Most the people out there who don't know a teacher might not be aware of this though. Whats sad is both Obama and McCain are defenders of this act.

Irene
09-28-2008, 02:52 AM
I think the truth is simply an inability to do a job well.

What makes you think that those group of people are giving you a world-class service? Security, for example, is just a propaganda.

I have been through different companies and I'm a civil servant myself. I can only say that those companies are good at covering their image. Each different company have different underground stories. Stories to prove that their performance is poor.

People like Hitler, or Saddam, will tell his people that they will fight to get more land and improve their livings. That's how war started in the first place. The US President don't really need to start a war, they have a high standard of living. Similar to London, Brunei, and other countries, where a terrorist bomb accident have happened. Can we still say that it's their president who plotted it?

Sinz
09-30-2008, 01:10 AM
That whole child left behind bull**** is just the governments way of breeding the next generation of sheep. Like DSG I don't believe our governments hands were completely clean in this, they have known to be sketchy in the past "scandals" *cough* watergate cough*, there is no way they didn't know about this, they can tell when people wipe their asses but not be able to know when people get on a plane and hijack it. The whole 9/11 bull**** needs to be put to rest our government probably spent more lives over seas during this "police action" then were lost in the explosion/collapse of the towers.

CrazyGerbilEater
09-30-2008, 08:14 AM
Personally I know the terrorists did it, but I don't think our governments hands are totally clean. I think they knew about it and ignored it, credible intel or not, it should have been taken seriously. Either that, or the intel community or Bush administration let it happen. Thats my 2 cents on this whole thing.

thats what i think.

for one reason or another the reports were ignored, im not saying they did it on purpose, but im not saying the didnt either.

the military gets a crapload of funding, and despite what many think, they use it to do things like gather intelligence, and spread huge intel networks. they pretty much know everything that goes down, and know at least a little about anything even slightly related to an attack on the usa.

they jsut have trouble piecing it all together, and the administartion probaly has a problem listening to these reports and doing somthing intelligent about them

JamesUsher
09-30-2008, 08:11 PM
Educated people are harder to control. That's why the public education in the USA is horrid.

lol.sad and scary..but so true