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JamesUsher
09-18-2008, 08:43 PM
Im new here about 2 weeks old and Ive heard about the DDOS wars atleast 4 times already.

I was wondering what that was and when it happend??

MiCrOz
09-18-2008, 08:46 PM
Im new here about 2 weeks old and Ive heard about the DDOS wars atleast 4 times already.

I was wondering what that was and when it happend??
There was alot of DDoS'ing.

It was a while ago.

JamesUsher
09-18-2008, 08:54 PM
There was alot of DDoS'ing.

It was a while ago.
DDoS'ing ?? please explain

Shimano
09-18-2008, 09:01 PM
Denial-of-service attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial-of-service_attack)

ViperSRT3g
09-18-2008, 09:06 PM
A couple of people from ZeroGamers dossed BWHacks and Ghoztcraft, thereby infuriating members from both websites to want to start a massive site to site e-war. At one point BWhacks was hosted on Ghoztcraft's server because the dossing kept going for so long, and Ghoztcraft relocated to about 3 or 4 different servers because of the massive amounts of dossing. Eventually it was discovered that a certain affiliate of ZeroGamers (Who for some ****ed up reason is a mod here) was responsible for some of the dossing attacks, and a particular ex-Co Admin from Zerogamers (Who is currently in the Air Force) was also responsible for a lot of the attacks.

JamesUsher
09-18-2008, 09:10 PM
Denial-of-service attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial-of-service_attack)

wow thanks i read it.so that happend here..anyways thanks shimano

JamesUsher
09-18-2008, 09:13 PM
A couple of people from ZeroGamers dossed BWHacks and Ghoztcraft, thereby infuriating members from both websites to want to start a massive site to site e-war. At one point BWhacks was hosted on Ghoztcraft's server because the dossing kept going for so long, and Ghoztcraft relocated to about 3 or 4 different servers because of the massive amounts of dossing. Eventually it was discovered that a certain affiliate of ZeroGamers (Who for some ****ed up reason is a mod here) was responsible for some of the dossing attacks, and a particular ex-Co Admin from Zerogamers (Who is currently in the Air Force) was also responsible for a lot of the attacks.

Hmmm thats fishy that they made someone involved with it a mod here.

HARD_ON
09-18-2008, 09:17 PM
KcP (http://www.bwhacks.com/forums/members/k-p-o-ti-n-.html) and Titan?

Shimano
09-18-2008, 09:18 PM
What I don't understand is why didn't ghostcraft and bwhacks file a lawsuit if they knew that zerogamers ddos'd them. I wasn't here for all of this either, but that's what i would do instead of just ddosing them back

HARD_ON
09-18-2008, 09:20 PM
'Cause these are just expensive games people like to play. What're they gonna say in court? "He stole my maphacks, yer honor. IP BAN HIM!"

ViperSRT3g
09-18-2008, 09:22 PM
Because N8 has his godly team of lawyers >_> And frankly after that, we just wanted to be left alone. Those were stressful times :/ I actually stopped coming to these websites during this time. And sadly because of that, my account here got deleted, so I had to make a new one back in 2006, and when Ghoztcraft finally settled at the server it used to be on before it's present one, I was already the 411th member to register again after the attacks. Even though I've been around BWH since 2004 and GC since 2005.

JamesUsher
09-18-2008, 09:26 PM
Because N8 has his godly team of lawyers >_> And frankly after that, we just wanted to be left alone. Those were stressful times :/ I actually stopped coming to these websites during this time. And sadly because of that, my account here got deleted, so I had to make a new one back in 2006, and when Ghoztcraft finally settled at the server it used to be on before it's present one, I was already the 411th member to register again after the attacks. Even though I've been around BWH since 2004 and GC since 2005.

Holy **** realy lawyers stuff musta really got outta hand holy poohy

K? Pŕo?ćtiόnŹ
09-18-2008, 09:28 PM
FYI I had no part in the ddosing.

ViperSRT3g
09-18-2008, 09:32 PM
Well duh, your not a former co-admin from Zerogamers XD

JamesUsher
09-18-2008, 09:33 PM
Ive heard that is was 24k but i dont know am I right?

ViperSRT3g
09-18-2008, 09:37 PM
Yeah he was one of em. His site Blizzcrackers.com was affiliates with ZeroGamers back then.

kds
09-18-2008, 09:39 PM
but we went ahead and gave hims staff here anyways

JamesUsher
09-18-2008, 09:40 PM
but we went ahead and gave hims staff here anyways

Thats what I want to know WHY!? you would think that you would hate him???

ViperSRT3g
09-18-2008, 09:46 PM
lol I wonder if anyone can guess who the second person might be :P Believe it or not, he got banned from here at one point...

JamesUsher
09-18-2008, 09:48 PM
lol I wonder if anyone can guess who the second person might be :P Believe it or not, he got banned from here at one point...

lol do you know or are we gonna play a guess game?

ViperSRT3g
09-18-2008, 09:54 PM
I know who it is, and we can play the guessing game. :P dt should know... He was the one who banned him. >_> Because it was people like him that harm the whole hacking community.

JamesUsher
09-18-2008, 09:57 PM
Lol maybe if i was here longer then 2 weeks i would know ill just wait for someone more inlightend then me to awnser ;)

el-camino-ss
09-18-2008, 11:31 PM
Because N8 has his godly team of lawyers >_> And frankly after that, we just wanted to be left alone. Those were stressful times :/ I actually stopped coming to these websites during this time. And sadly because of that, my account here got deleted, so I had to make a new one back in 2006, and when Ghoztcraft finally settled at the server it used to be on before it's present one, I was already the 411th member to register again after the attacks. Even though I've been around BWH since 2004 and GC since 2005.

Nayatte has the godly team of lawyers, and he CALLED n8.

Dyndrilliac
09-18-2008, 11:40 PM
Thats what I want to know WHY!? you would think that you would hate him???As I understand it dt forces the staff to maintain a unilateral policy of "understanding" and "tolerance", and other equally illogical ideologies (after all, humans are naturally engineered for conflict - as a species we excel at it above all others). At one time, many staff members wore "Funtastic Rainbow Fun-time Squad" member titles as a display of quiet disapproval of said policy. Most of the staff who disagreed are either retired, have left the site entirely, or both. There are still proponents of the old days of skull cracking - nickolay being worshipped and reverred as the cornerstone of the fierce and unyielding mentality of staff members. HBA tried to revive the tradition, but that time is no longer.

K? Pŕo?ćtiόnŹ
09-19-2008, 12:43 AM
Hard hitting niggaz with pipes and ****

Sinz
09-19-2008, 12:54 AM
I think they changed it to
Hard hitting niggaz with pipes and shiz
so that the word filter wouldn't make it ****

Shimano
09-19-2008, 05:12 AM
'Cause these are just expensive games people like to play. What're they gonna say in court? "He stole my maphacks, yer honor. IP BAN HIM!"
No, but if they have proof of the DDoS attacks then they can get fined at least. DDoS'ing is illegal...

CrazyGerbilEater
09-19-2008, 05:17 AM
so is hacking...

i remember all the times bwhacks was down, was a sad time. i had no idea where to turn. so i just played sc by my lonesome, wishing, hoping, my dreamland would return. i faintly remember not being able to log in after one time, and recreating this account. but i dont remember if i managed to recreate it, or got an error, gave up, and came back later ith it working.

lpxxfaintxx
09-19-2008, 05:57 AM
I think they changed it to
Hard hitting niggaz with pipes and shiz
so that the word filter wouldn't make it ****

I believe it was also hittin' not hitting.

dt
09-19-2008, 07:50 AM
As I understand it dt forces the staff to maintain a unilateral policy of "understanding" and "tolerance", and other equally illogical ideologies (after all, humans are naturally engineered for conflict - as a species we excel at it above all others). At one time, many staff members wore "Funtastic Rainbow Fun-time Squad" member titles as a display of quiet disapproval of said policy. Most of the staff who disagreed are either retired, have left the site entirely, or both. There are still proponents of the old days of skull cracking - nickolay being worshipped and reverred as the cornerstone of the fierce and unyielding mentality of staff members. HBA tried to revive the tradition, but that time is no longer.

This is nonsense on so many levels. Not to start a long discussion, but: there is no proof whatsoever that 24k was involved in ddossing us. If there was, he would certainly not be on the staff, he would be banned. Second, calling tolerance an "illogical ideology" is totally ridiculous. Tolerance is a fundamental principle of all civilized human societies. The way I run this site is not some exotic ideology of mine, it is how MOST online forums are run, especially large sites in the gaming sector.

Sinz
09-19-2008, 07:55 AM
we need moar "Hard hittin' niggaz with pipes n shiz"

Dyndrilliac
09-19-2008, 09:58 AM
This is nonsense on so many levels. Not to start a long discussion, but: there is no proof whatsoever that 24k was involved in ddossing us. If there was, he would certainly not be on the staff, he would be banned. Second, calling tolerance an "illogical ideology" is totally ridiculous. Tolerance is a fundamental principle of all civilized human societies. The way I run this site is not some exotic ideology of mine, it is how MOST online forums are run, especially large sites in the gaming sector.I seem to remember him not only admitting guilt, but bragging about his "leet skillz" from first hand accounts of others and submissions to the shoutbox I personally witnessed and posts he made that I read. But, to be honest I always regarded him as a loser newbie who couldn't hack his way out of a paper bag script kiddie, so you may be right (although, I believe it was revealed that his "DDoSing skills" was just his finger spamming the Refresh Page hotkey from his browser, and others who shall remain nameless tell me he knows something of SQL injection). At any rate, I can understand not holding someone accountable without having proper evidence (although I seem to remember him being banned shortly after the incident in question, if he was innocent why was he banned? Your story does seem kind of flimsy, dt...).

As for my comment about your policies regarding staff behavior, many staff members who shall remain nameless have mentioned to me at length on many occasions that not only did you expressly forbid them from reprimanding people for infractions on several occasions, but that you also over-turned many of said reprimands after the person who had been punished came whining to you. Tolerance and understanding is all fine and dandy, but when such overly cliche and naive views of the world and how it works begins to undermine the law and order that allows societies to function without falling into chaos and anarchy then there is a problem. And your forum IS NOT run the same as many other successful communities, as you so claim. Each staff member should have a certain amount of guaranteed discretionary power, and people who spam ARE punished (unlike here, where you repeatedly offer people clean slates after they do a sufficient amount of crying and whining). I don't mean to be overly argumentative, but the facts simply don't support this grandiose fairy tale community of which you claim to be the master and commander.

Edit: I cite an example - the forums at the site Gamefaqs (one of the single largest gaming sites in the history of the internet), has an EXTREMELY strict level of moderation (my account there has been reprimanded countless times for even the slightest flames and other posts that were against the rules, specifically explaining some online game exploits in detail - after all, they are a community of legit gamers). The kind of hard hitting niggaz with pipes n **** that would give nickolay an instant boner.

Shin666
09-19-2008, 10:00 AM
I know who it is, and we can play the guessing game. :P dt should know... He was the one who banned him. >_> Because it was people like him that harm the whole hacking community.

Agent[GoD]

What do i win?

ViperSRT3g
09-19-2008, 10:19 AM
Agent[GoD]

What do i win?

lol wrong, you win a slap upside the head :D

NickF
09-19-2008, 10:40 AM
Well agent and i were involved in the chaos as well, UF was also attacked at one point.

24k
09-19-2008, 10:47 AM
I seem to remember him not only admitting guilt, but bragging about his "leet skillz" from first hand accounts of others and submissions to the shoutbox I personally witnessed and posts he made that I read. But, to be honest I always regarded him as a loser newbie who couldn't hack his way out of a paper bag script kiddie, so you may be right (although, I believe it was revealed that his "DDoSing skills" was just his finger spamming the Refresh Page hotkey from his browser, and others who shall remain nameless tell me he knows something of SQL injection). At any rate, I can understand not holding someone accountable without having proper evidence (although I seem to remember him being banned shortly after the incident in question, if he was innocent why was he banned? Your story does seem kind of flimsy, dt...).

When you are going to call someone a newbie, at least don't follow up with a moronic argument that could very well be the stupidest thing I've heard on this site. Finger spamming Refresh Key? I'm sorry, is there anything inside that skull of yours? Perhaps you are living in 1989? If you are seriously suggesting that anyone could take down a site now days with such an idiotic method, then you my friend need to do some research and catch up with times. Even shared hosting can handle something like that, hell I bet geocities would have no trouble. Ha, bwhacks had to go 2 different temporary forums because someone was constantly refreshing the website. Funny.

No, I've never flooded the site, and no I never admitted to doing it. If you mean all the smiley faces and rhetorical questions I posted as to why the website is down --just having fun. As I recall rabid took down this website several times. Two of the times it was with a perl script he wrote and 2 different zombie servers (I think Ghoztcraft was one of them), and then another few times using a large network of zombies from surpass hosting.

In short, you are a ****ing moron.

Belphegor
09-19-2008, 10:49 AM
BF was ddos'd once. I think... :o

JamesUsher
09-19-2008, 10:53 AM
lol wrong, you win a slap upside the head :D

Laugh Out LOUD!!!!!

Shin666
09-19-2008, 12:10 PM
If you are seriously suggesting that anyone could take down a site now days with such an idiotic method, then you my friend need to do some research and catch up with times. Even shared hosting can handle something like that, hell I bet geocities would have no trouble. Ha, bwhacks had to go 2 different temporary forums because someone was constantly refreshing the website. Funny.

actually a person with a decent computer can ping out an entire site depending on how many instances of cprompt their cromputer can handle opened and running

dt
09-19-2008, 12:14 PM
I seem to remember him not only admitting guilt, but bragging about his "leet skillz" from first hand accounts of others and submissions to the shoutbox I personally witnessed and posts he made that I read. But, to be honest I always regarded him as a loser newbie who couldn't hack his way out of a paper bag script kiddie, so you may be right (although, I believe it was revealed that his "DDoSing skills" was just his finger spamming the Refresh Page hotkey from his browser, and others who shall remain nameless tell me he knows something of SQL injection). At any rate, I can understand not holding someone accountable without having proper evidence (although I seem to remember him being banned shortly after the incident in question, if he was innocent why was he banned? Your story does seem kind of flimsy, dt...).

As for my comment about your policies regarding staff behavior, many staff members who shall remain nameless have mentioned to me at length on many occasions that not only did you expressly forbid them from reprimanding people for infractions on several occasions, but that you also over-turned many of said reprimands after the person who had been punished came whining to you. Tolerance and understanding is all fine and dandy, but when such overly cliche and naive views of the world and how it works begins to undermine the law and order that allows societies to function without falling into chaos and anarchy then there is a problem. And your forum IS NOT run the same as many other successful communities, as you so claim. Each staff member should have a certain amount of guaranteed discretionary power, and people who spam ARE punished (unlike here, where you repeatedly offer people clean slates after they do a sufficient amount of crying and whining). I don't mean to be overly argumentative, but the facts simply don't support this grandiose fairy tale community of which you claim to be the master and commander.

Edit: I cite an example - the forums at the site Gamefaqs (one of the single largest gaming sites in the history of the internet), has an EXTREMELY strict level of moderation (my account there has been reprimanded countless times for even the slightest flames and other posts that were against the rules, specifically explaining some online game exploits in detail - after all, they are a community of legit gamers). The kind of hard hitting niggaz with pipes n **** that would give nickolay an instant boner.


Spam is a punishable offense on bwh, and it always was. I don't prevent any legitimate punishments against spam. What I do prevent is for moderators to go on some kind of power trip and punish people for anything they like, such as "being an idiot". Of course they like to hold that against me and say I'm a bad webmaster for not letting them play dictator in my forum.

If you think that nickolay-style moderation is how most successful online forums work, you're the one who's being naive. I have yet to see a major site where moderators are allowed to do anything they like without administrative supervision, and where being an idiot is against the forum rules. I frequent a number of large, company-owned websites and in fact, moderators there are not allowed to punish users at all, only admins are. So, don't call me naive if you don't know yourself how professional website management works.

As for gamefaqs, please show me the passage that says being an idiot or having bad grammar is against the rules.



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Perma
09-19-2008, 12:16 PM
I'm the only other person on this site that was ever an administrator at Zerogamers that I know of. So I'm not sure what Viper is talking about there, because I was not involved in any such drama.

As as for you, dt, don't concern yourself with how people prtray you as a webmaster. You know that you're doing your job right, and I know it, too. This site wouldn't still exist if it wasn't the case.

24k
09-19-2008, 12:18 PM
actually a person with a decent computer can ping out an entire site depending on how many instances of cprompt their cromputer can handle opened and running
He is talking about pressing refresh on a browser manually. Obviously if you go outside that, flooding is very possible.

What he is talking about is about as pointless as opening command prompt and typing:

ping -n 100 www.bwhacks.com

Edit:
Permi I better get some hawt secks. I quit knowing I wont get the grey thingy. >: (


I'm the only other person on this site that was ever an administrator at Zerogamers that I know of. So I'm not sure what Viper is talking about there, because I was not involved in any such drama.
N8 gave me admin as peace offering for you ****ing me over. =D

Shin666
09-19-2008, 12:25 PM
He is talking about pressing refresh on a browser manually. Obviously if you go outside that, flooding very possible.

What he is talking about is about as pointless as opening command prompt and typing:

ping -n 100 www.bwhacks.com
(

i was thinking more along the lines of making an endless batch file, but fair enough.

bulk_4me
09-19-2008, 12:26 PM
actually a person with a decent computer can ping out an entire site depending on how many instances of cprompt their cromputer can handle opened and running

With the proper tools and decent connection you can "fist ****" a site with just a couple of Probes flooding with complex transactions (using the search engine, trying to login, etc.), believe or not even the most optimized software has huge bottlenecks in these transactions 'thus they can be targeted and abused if you know what you're doing.

Shin666
09-19-2008, 12:42 PM
bulk, your sig just blew my mind and fixed 2 stuck pixels. Also yea but i try to keep info beyond the norm from prying eyes

Dyndrilliac
09-19-2008, 01:20 PM
When you are going to call someone a newbie, at least don't follow up with a moronic argument that could very well be the stupidest thing I've heard on this site. Finger spamming Refresh Key? I'm sorry, is there anything inside that skull of yours? Perhaps you are living in 1989? If you are seriously suggesting that anyone could take down a site now days with such an idiotic method, then you my friend need to do some research and catch up with times. Even shared hosting can handle something like that, hell I bet geocities would have no trouble. Ha, bwhacks had to go 2 different temporary forums because someone was constantly refreshing the website. Funny.I never said that spamming refresh could take down a website (learn to read, "****ing moron"), however, with the extremely large amount of traffic that BWH was experiencing at the time (several thousand unique views a day, if I recall correctly) a multitude of people continually requesting fresh views of a website can cause bandwidth bottlenecks, especially on crappy web servers. Note that I am not saying that this alone was the direct cause of the website not being able to be served to legitimate viewers, had this been combined with real DoS attacks (which it was), the result is a crippled web server. Now, be silent; the adults are trying to have an adult conversation.


Spam is a punishable offense on bwh, and it always was. I don't prevent any legitimate punishments against spam. What I do prevent is for moderators to go on some kind of power trip and punish people for anything they like, such as "being an idiot". Of course they like to hold that against me and say I'm a bad webmaster for not letting them play dictator in my forum.

If you think that nickolay-style moderation is how most successful online forums work, you're the one who's being naive. I have yet to see a major site where moderators are allowed to do anything they like without administrative supervision, and where being an idiot is against the forum rules. I frequent a number of large, company-owned websites and in fact, moderators there are not allowed to punish users at all, only admins are. So, don't call me naive if you don't know yourself how professional website management works.

As for gamefaqs, please show me the passage that says being an idiot or having bad grammar is against the rules.I am not claiming you to be a bad webmaster, I simply wish to see this discussion played out since it has been brought up (I have wanted to see this topic brought to light for quite some time, actually). I can understand not wanting to give your underlings free reign to do as they please, but when the staff are faced with the massive amounts of pure unadulterated spam that this site once had to contend with (and some times still does, although I try to go into as few boards as possible so I don't have to sift through it all), can you really expect your staff to write out thorough reasoning for each and every infraction, when the reason the infraction had to be given was that the user was too stupid to read and follow the rules? Also, doesn't even having a page dedicated to rules and regulations imply that being a part of the community requires that the member be competent enough to be able to read, comprehend, and follow the rules? Ignorance as a defense does not work in any court in the world, it should not work on a forum.

As for whether or not strict moderation works (I think we need to move away from phrases like "nickolay style", as the meaning of such a phrase is relative - I see it as meaning strict, whereas you may see it as meaning totalitarian), here are several forums where strict moderation is practiced, and has worked since the conception of the communities:

MPC Forums - Powered by vBulletin (http://www.mpcforum.com/forum.php)
http://forum.gamedeception.net/
Valhalla Legends Forum - Index (http://forum.valhallalegends.com/)
Video Game Cheats, Reviews, FAQs, Message Boards, and More - GameFAQs (http://www.gamefaqs.com/)
Neverwinter Nights: Forum Index (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/index.html)

Of course moderators do not have absolute power at the aforementioned boards (nor should they, but they can give infractions, delete posts, and lock/delete topics with relative discretionary freedom), but it seems to me that at BWH they have practically no power whatsoever. If you are to believe some of the current and former staff members, it is as though they are children and they have to ask you for permission for every minor activity they engage in, as if you are there mother. What then is the point in even having staff members? isn't the whole point so that the undisputed community owner or head honcho doesn't have to micromanage every post and be responsible for all the work of maintaining the forums? And why make people that apparently have such poor judgment as to be totalitarian dictators staff members, if it is such a hassle to keep them in check? I don't understand, if it is such a broken system why not make changes?

In concern to Gamefaqs, I never said "being an idiot" or "having bad grammar" is against the rules - silly dt, putting words in my mouth. However, as I said earlier, just by having rules at all you are implying that if you don't have the required common sense to be able to read, comprehend, and follow the rules that you are not welcome at said community. And since you brought it up, having bad grammar may not be against the rules, but if your English is so poor that your posts cannot be understood, rest assured it will be removed and considered spam.

I won't argue the point further, as I feel mine has been adequately made. If the mods are to be nothing more than powerless figureheads, there is no point in having any of them. If you are to allow a loose interpretation of the rules and look the other way when people do stupid things, you are only inviting people to continue to do stupid things. I think you are forgetting that this site was designed to cater to people playing a game that was and still is rife with immature children. Children need discipline, lest you want them to continue to act like children. You would be well served to take a few lessons in behavioral conditioning from Ivan Pavlov's work.

bulk_4me
09-19-2008, 01:42 PM
Read your blog hope you keep posting stuff there. kthxbye.

el-camino-ss
09-19-2008, 01:44 PM
Hi bulk

dt
09-19-2008, 01:46 PM
I am not claiming you to be a bad webmaster, I simply wish to see this discussion played out since it has been brought up (I have wanted to see this topic brought to light for quite some time, actually). I can understand not wanting to give your underlings free reign to do as they please, but when the staff are faced with the massive amounts of pure unadulterated spam that this site once had to contend with (and some times still does, although I try to go into as few boards as possible so I don't have to sift through it all), can you really expect your staff to write out thorough reasoning for each and every infraction, when the reason the infraction had to be given was that the user was too stupid to read and follow the rules? Also, doesn't even having a page dedicated to rules and regulations imply that being a part of the community requires that the member be competent enough to be able to read, comprehend, and follow the rules? Ignorance as a defense does not work in any court in the world, it should not work on a forum.

Who said that staff needs to write out reasoning for every infraction? There just has to EXIST reasoning for punishments in accordance with the forum rules.


As for whether or not strict moderation works (I think we need to move away from phrases like "nickolay style", as the meaning of such a phrase is relative - I see it as meaning strict, whereas you may see it as meaning totalitarian), here are several forums where strict moderation is practiced, and has worked since the conception of the communities:

MPC Forums - Powered by vBulletin (http://www.mpcforum.com/forum.php)
Game Deception - Forums - Powered by vBulletin (http://forum.gamedeception.net/)
Valhalla Legends Forum - Index (http://forum.valhallalegends.com/)
Video Game Cheats, Reviews, FAQs, Message Boards, and More - GameFAQs (http://www.gamefaqs.com/)
Neverwinter Nights: Forum Index (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/index.html)


I don't know what you mean by "strict". Show me the rules of these forums, and what makes them stricter than ours.


Of course moderators do not have absolute power at the aforementioned boards (nor should they, but they can give infractions, delete posts, and lock/delete topics with relative discretionary freedom), but it seems to me that at BWH they have practically no power whatsoever. If you are to believe some of the current and former staff members, it is as though they are children and they have to ask you for permission for every minor activity they engage in, as if you are there mother. What then is the point in even having staff members? isn't the whole point so that the undisputed community owner or head honcho doesn't have to micromanage every post and be responsible for all the work of maintaining the forums? And why make people that apparently have such poor judgment as to be totalitarian dictators staff members, if it is such a hassle to keep them in check? I don't understand, if it is such a broken system why not make changes?

Mods have no power here? That's news to me. Like I said, they don't have the power to do anything they like. They have the power to punish violations against the forum rules, and they don't need my permission to do that. People just can't accept that their power has limits.


In concern to Gamefaqs, I never said "being an idiot" or "having bad grammar" is against the rules - silly dt, putting words in my mouth. However, as I said earlier, just by having rules at all you are implying that if you don't have the required common sense to be able to read, comprehend, and follow the rules that you are not welcome at said community. And since you brought it up, having bad grammar may not be against the rules, but if your English is so poor that your posts cannot be understood, rest assured it will be removed and considered spam.

Idiocy and bad grammar are exactly those things that nickolay who you keep praising has been punishing users for, and what moderators have been demanding to be allowed as reasons for punishments. These things are not against the rules however, and moderators just can't deal with the fact that they're not given unlimited authority and that I will reverse actions that abuse power or are otherwise illegitimate.

24k
09-19-2008, 01:47 PM
I never said that spamming refresh could take down a website (learn to read, "****ing moron"), however, with the extremely large amount of traffic that BWH was experiencing at the time (several thousand unique views a day, if I recall correctly) a multitude of people continually requesting fresh views of a website can cause bandwidth bottlenecks, especially on crappy web servers. Note that I am not saying that this alone was the direct cause of the website not being able to be served to legitimate viewers, had this been combined with real DoS attacks (which it was), the result is a crippled web server. Now, be silent; the adults are trying to have an adult conversation.

Okay, so it turned from me being a DDoS attacker, to a script kiddy that simply holds the refresh button, to several people who can potentially hurt the website if holding the key at the same time?

I can't even begin to explain just how idiotic your attempts to explain yourself are. I mean Jesus Christ man, for once shut the **** up and move on. You ramble on and on and on about absolutely nothing. Try as much as you want to sound intelligent, but you sir are a ****ing cretin. No wonder you never got that mod position.

dt why are you even bothering with this clown?

Belphegor
09-19-2008, 01:59 PM
I doubt Matt would of taken a mod position here at any rate, 24k. So why are you bringing that up?

24k
09-19-2008, 02:01 PM
I doubt Matt would of taken a mod position here at any rate, 24k. So why are you bringing that up?
You doubt a guy who started a topic requesting to be made a mod would take the position if the staff agreed with the request? Yeah, makes perfect sense to me.

Dyndrilliac
09-19-2008, 02:09 PM
@bulk: Was that directed at me? If so, thanks for the compliment. I haven't really had time to do anything with the blog though. I will try to do better :).

@dt: Like I said, I won't continue to waste time arguing a point I feel I have adequately made. I will however say this: The sets of rules aren't any less strict, the way in which they are enforced however is. That was the whole point of both of my posts. Also, I reiterate: If having power hungry mods is such a hassle that you are required to be constantly policing them when you could be better spending your time improving the site, what is the point in having them at all? I consider you to be a smart person, and I can't bring myself to believe that you would continue to use such a system if it is indeed as broken as you claim it is, which leads me to only one possibility - you are intentionally deflecting the blame on to the moderators, instead of taking responsibility for the type of people who you give authority to. In the end, you have only yourself to blame for the type of people you give power to.

@24k: The fact of the matter is, I stand by my posts, even if no one else has the balls to come out and speak their mind. I really couldn't care less what you have to say, or how you may try to discredit me; Everyone here knows the truth, and that is enough to satisfy me. I honestly don't have the time to sit and play flame wars with some stupid child.


I doubt Matt would of taken a mod position here at any rate, 24k. So why are you bringing that up?There was a time when I wouldn't have minded a chance to help out with all the mindless crap that seemed to find its way here. However, I no longer have time for that, and eventually it became a lost cause. If the owner of the site can't be bothered to care what childishness goes on under the umbrella protection of powerless staff, then how can we? I mean, 24k is responsible for an absurd amount of outright flaming (an action that the site claims is against the rules) in a topic that dt is actively engaged in. Will there be a punishment? Probably not. Do I care? Not really. It just further proves my point. And, for those of you who care to remember, I requested modship in Programming, where I was trying to actively maintain an index of helpful posts (which has become dilapidated and useless now that no one has updated it in god knows how long, which is exactly what I said would happen without me to do it). The point is this: This place is a useless pile of crap now. I wouldn't take a staff position if they came to me on their knees begging for my help.

dt
09-19-2008, 02:22 PM
Like I said, I won't continue to waste time arguing a point I feel I have adequately made. I will however say this: The sets of rules aren't any less strict, the way in which they are enforced however is. That was the whole point of both of my posts.
No, you have not made a point at all. You whined that this site sucks and you've thrown around some buzzwords like "spam", "strictness", "pile of crap", and "nickolay". You have not elaborated at all what exactly you would like to be changed around here.


Also, I reiterate: If having power hungry mods is such a hassle that you are required to be constantly policing them when you could be better spending your time improving the site, what is the point in having them at all? I consider you to be a smart person, and I can't bring myself to believe that you would continue to use such a system if it is indeed as broken as you claim it is, which leads me to only one possibility - you are intentionally deflecting the blame on to the moderators, instead of taking responsibility for the type of people who you give authority to. In the end, you have only yourself to blame for the type of people you give power to.

I don't have that many choices when picking moderators here. This is just a game hacking site, not exactly a gathering ground of the intellectual elite.


I mean, 24k is responsible for an absurd amount of outright flaming (an action that the site claims is against the rules) in a topic that dt is actively engaged in. Will there be a punishment? Probably not. Do I care? Not really. It just further proves my point.

No it does not prove your point because flaming outside the flame board is against the rules here and if a moderator were to punish him for these posts, he would have my blessing.

24k
09-19-2008, 02:24 PM
@24k: The fact of the matter is, I stand by my posts, even if no one else has the balls to come out and speak their mind. I really couldn't care less what you have to say, or how you may try to discredit me; Everyone here knows the truth, and that is enough to satisfy me. I honestly don't have the time to sit and play flame wars with some stupid child.

In other words, you refuse to listen logic and instead want to continue living in your little fantasy world in which your opinion is not the very definition of rubbish. You keep calling me a stupid and childish, and yet on what grounds? Oh, I know, on the grounds that you are an imbecile who can't make a point without being seen as a total jackass. Think about what point you are trying to make, and post it in a sentence or two. No need for half a page full of paragraphs that essentially say nothing.

ViperSRT3g
09-19-2008, 02:30 PM
Yep well I guess this was indeed still a touchy subject XD


It's called responsibility. People like knwn harm the whole gaming community.

Indefinite
09-19-2008, 02:34 PM
If there was, he would certainly not be on the staff, he would be banned.
I seem to remember him being banned shortly after the incident in question, if he was innocent why was he banned?Btw, you're diverting from the topic. It doesn't matter how it was DDoSed, but the fact remains that it was DDoSed.
24k being a non-skilled faggot without manners is just another story yet to be told.

Also, in relation to the "tolerance" issue, even I've heard rumors that many people from the staff, which I won't name, were complaining about 24k's actions, let alone users' complaints themselves. Yet, he still somehow remained section mod for quite some time under the cover of hope that he may change and bring something new to the forum.

There's a small catch to that, though: this forum doesn't need changes at this particular moment.
Some suggested changes were just plain useless, some of them could've made this place even worse.
The changes will be needed, when the site will change it's direction, but as for now it still is the best site that specializes in Starcraft hacks.

It will always be just a source for Starcraft hacks for many people out there, a place to learn something for some and a community for a few.
The way it was suggested to run reminds me of a ****load of petty sites out there, that specialize in nothing at all.

Dyndrilliac
09-19-2008, 02:42 PM
I don't have that many choices when picking moderators here. This is just a game hacking site, not exactly a gathering ground of the intellectual elite.

...

No it does not prove your point because flaming outside the flame board is against the rules here and if a moderator were to punish him for these posts, he would have my blessing.I just think it's a little too convenient that you can simultaneously blame your staff for both enforcing the rules too strictly and not strictly enough. This is supposedly your site, and yet anyone who does deserves to get punished and yet isn't gets a free ride because your staff didn't do their job, and when they try to do their job you whine and complain that they overstepped their boundaries. You cannot have it both ways, and I hoped to never have to come out and say this to you, but grow a pair and take some responsibility.

24k
09-19-2008, 02:50 PM
Btw, you're diverting from the topic. It doesn't matter how it was DDoSed, but the fact remains that it was DDoSed.
24k being a non-skilled faggot without manners is just another story yet to be told.

Yeah, I have absolutely no skills. You know me perfectly well and you are an expert on everything there is to know about me. Wait, No... no you are not. You're just some random fag who seems to have a grudge because of an infraction I gave. Boohoo. Here is a handkerchief, shove it down your throat and choke on it.


Also, in relation to the "tolerance" issue, even I've heard rumors that many people from the staff, which I won't name, were complaining about 24k's actions, let alone users' complaints themselves. Yet, he still somehow remained section mod for quite some time under the cover of hope that he may change and bring something new to the forums.O rly? I've heard rumors that many people from the staff, which I won't name, say you are a faggot. Okay fine, I'll name one. DSG says you sucked his cock. :smile:


There's a small catch to that, though: this forum doesn't need changes at this particular moment. Some suggested changes were just plain useless, some of them could've made this place even worse.
The changes will be needed, when the site will change it's direction, but as for now it still is the best site that specialises in Starcraft hacks.Oh, okay. Well when you think it's time for change, be sure to pm dt. He'll need the input of a random fag that no ones seems to know who apparently knows when it's the perfect time for anything to be altered in BWH. You spelled "specializes" wrong BTW. :peek:

Okay, I'm done, Adiós Amigos.

Sight
09-19-2008, 02:56 PM
O rly? I've heard rumors that many people from the staff, which I won't name, say you are a faggot. Okay fine, I'll name one. DSG says you sucked his cock. :smile:

Jesus just like grade 9 with people spreading rumors.

dt
09-19-2008, 03:03 PM
I just think it's a little too convenient that you can simultaneously blame your staff for both enforcing the rules too strictly and not strictly enough. This is supposedly your site, and yet anyone who does deserves to get punished and yet isn't gets a free ride because your staff didn't do their job, and when they try to do their job you whine and complain that they overstepped their boundaries. You cannot have it both ways, and I hoped to never have to come out and say this to you, but grow a pair and take some responsibility.

Nice construction there, unfortunately all you have are some abstract insults and accusations without anything substantial. I already told you that 24k violated the rules in this thread and if moderators are not punishing him for that, then you can blame them, but not me.

MiCrOz
09-19-2008, 03:04 PM
Nice construction there, unfortunately all you have are some abstract insults and accusations without anything substantial. I already told you that 24k violated the rules in this thread and if moderators are not punishing him for that, then you can blame them, but not me.
Too cool to enforce the rules yourself?

Indefinite
09-19-2008, 03:05 PM
Wow, now here's a fag to learn faggotry from.


Yeah, I have absolutely no skills. You know me perfectly well and you are an expert on everything there is to know about me. Wait, No... no you are not. You're just some random fag who seems to have a grudge because of an infraction I gave. Boohoo. Here is a handkerchief, shove it down your throat and choke on it.I don't know you, I still have the liberty to judge you by your appearance and past.
And I suppose you're more into my infraction than I am, providing it wasn't about the infraction itself.


O rly? I've heard rumors that many people from the staff, which I won't name, say you are a faggot. Okay fine, I'll name one. DSG says you sucked his cock. :smile:Well then we agree on each other. The difference maker is that you suck dt's/Perma's cock and become a section mod in the middle of that (for no reason at all), while I suck DSG's, still being who I really am - a faggot, who actually has nothing to say. At least I know my place in line.


Oh, okay. Well when you think it's time for change, be sure to pm dt. He'll need the input of a random fag that no ones seems to know who apparently knows when it's the perfect time for anything to be altered in BWH.He has already done that. He put you in that place.

Oh, and you've spelled "no one" with an "s".

Belphegor
09-19-2008, 03:13 PM
24k, I said a moderator, as in someone useful. Not a mod of a specific section, one thats rarely used to begin with. He wouldn't of really moderated much at all in programming, only post useful resources for those of us who are interested and could use them.

DSG
09-19-2008, 03:32 PM
Stop it with the flaming and personal attacks, this is not the flame board, you can start a thread over there if you would like. I am surprised I was the first to actually infract a few people in this thread or say anything.

JamesUsher
09-19-2008, 03:37 PM
When you are going to call someone a newbie, at least don't follow up with a moronic argument that could very well be the stupidest thing I've heard on this site. Finger spamming Refresh Key? I'm sorry, is there anything inside that skull of yours? Perhaps you are living in 1989? If you are seriously suggesting that anyone could take down a site now days with such an idiotic method, then you my friend need to do some research and catch up with times. Even shared hosting can handle something like that, hell I bet geocities would have no trouble. Ha, bwhacks had to go 2 different temporary forums because someone was constantly refreshing the website. Funny.

No, I've never flooded the site, and no I never admitted to doing it. If you mean all the smiley faces and rhetorical questions I posted as to why the website is down --just having fun. As I recall rabid took down this website several times. Two of the times it was with a perl script he wrote and 2 different zombie servers (I think Ghoztcraft was one of them), and then another few times using a large network of zombies from surpass hosting.

In short, you are a ****ing moron.

You are very harsh..

ViperSRT3g
09-19-2008, 03:56 PM
Wow, yeah this is a very touchy subject geez... This all happened a couple of years ago, cool it.