PDA

View Full Version : Honda FCX Clarity



Takoru
07-09-2008, 03:13 AM
The Honda FCX Clarity is supposed to be Honda's brilliant idea to solving our environmental problems because of the billions of cars releasing pollutions into our atmosphere damaging our ozone layer. But this magical car is able to convert air and hydrogen into electricity then power rest of the car...and in turn it releases harmless water vapor into the air O.O Of course one downside to this is, you would need H2o/Hydrogen stations to power the car....most likely dealerships would have them. By year 2018, Honda FCX's will be mass produced and available to pretty much anyone by then.(Facts from Honda FCX Clarity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_fcx) & Honda FCX Clarity - Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicle - Official Web Site (http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/))

Do you think that this car is the solution to our environmental and energy problems?

Mobilus
07-09-2008, 09:39 AM
This is ridiculous. The production cost of this vehicle will, for a long time, create more pollution than an equivalent combustion engine's emissions output for 10-20 years.

What we really need is NiMH battery cars, like the 97 EV Rav-4. Dirt cheap to produce and dirt cheap to charge with decent power and range.

Oh but wait, Chevron owns the patent to that and will sue anyone who comes close. It cost Toyota over $30,000,000 in court fines just for producing a few of them.

I guess it makes sense to have the oil companies own the patents for most alternate energy so we can make sure we stick with oil for as long as they can squeeze money out of us and harm the environment as much as possible first right? :rolleyes:

Takoru
07-09-2008, 08:01 PM
Yes but what if everyone started buying these NiMH battery cars and everyone started plugging it in for electricity? Price of electricity would most likely go up.....and producing electricity itself isn't exactly good for our enviroment, heres a quote from http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/17/business/worldbusiness/17fuelcell.html
"Fuel cells have an advantage over electric cars, whose batteries take hours to recharge and use electricity, which, in the case of the United States, China and many other countries, is often produced by coal-burning power plants."

Mobilus
07-09-2008, 08:34 PM
Except that Toyota had a package deal when it was selling the EVs that it would throw in a solar panel package that could charge the car in about 8 hours overnight after storing up sunlight during the day.

Solar is definitely the way to go, and solar panels keep getting more and more efficient.

Takoru
07-09-2008, 09:27 PM
I wonder if Solar ran cars would have a global impact somehow....unless theres pretty much infinite energy to be gained by our sun? Any idea on what the byproducts of a solar ran vehicle would be?

el-camino-ss
07-09-2008, 09:40 PM
This is ridiculous. The production cost of this vehicle will, for a long time, create more pollution than an equivalent combustion engine's emissions output for 10-20 years.

What we really need is NiMH battery cars, like the 97 EV Rav-4. Dirt cheap to produce and dirt cheap to charge with decent power and range.

Oh but wait, Chevron owns the patent to that and will sue anyone who comes close. It cost Toyota over $30,000,000 in court fines just for producing a few of them.

I guess it makes sense to have the oil companies own the patents for most alternate energy so we can make sure we stick with oil for as long as they can squeeze money out of us and harm the environment as much as possible first right? :rolleyes:

That would be a ton of battery's to recycle.

Raistlin
07-10-2008, 02:51 AM
I wonder if Solar ran cars would have a global impact somehow....unless theres pretty much infinite energy to be gained by our sun? Any idea on what the byproducts of a solar ran vehicle would be?

I've wondered the same thing - whether there is a point at which the en masse use of solar panels to generate the world's energy would be disrupting a balance that exists between the climate/environment and energy from the sun.

Mobilus
07-10-2008, 03:00 AM
En masse solar panels could lighten the load on global warming and stop us from reaching the tipping point that turned Venus into a piece of charcoal several hundred million years ago. That tipping point is an estimated 12-15% greenhouse gas atmospheric saturation. And because H20 is a better greenhouse gas than the C02 atmosphere of Venus, I'd say we are on the low end of that 12-15% limit. We want less light-heat that is trapped under cloud cover by vapor H2O is able to stay in the air bouncing around..???

The problem would be infra-red???? Lets pray we can reconstitute ozone because it doesn't repair naturally.

Raistlin
07-10-2008, 11:10 AM
I was thinking about the global warming factor as well, then I remembered that the temperature monitors are reporting global cooling (not sarcasm).

DailyTech - Temperature Monitors Report Widescale Global Cooling (http://www.dailytech.com/Temperature+Monitors+Report+Worldwide+Global+Cooli ng/article10866.htm)

Mobilus
07-10-2008, 11:54 AM
The heat increase doesn't matter so much right now, when the arming occurs it will be in a rapid spiral based on saturation of greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere.

Cantinflas
07-10-2008, 12:13 PM
That would be a ton of battery's to recycle.
We'd end up taking them to you at best buy :big_smile:
On topic: that ETA on the vehicle is way too far away. The "answer" should hurry a little. I mean what will be the prices on gas by then? $10 a gallon? imo its too far away too say anything good about it.

Indefinite
07-10-2008, 12:23 PM
Here we go with Mobilus' continuous, pseudo-intellectual, psychotic rant about our 'huge' impact on global warming and catastrophic consequences linked with it, meanwhile refusing to accept any logic or reason, other than his own desert-like planet future paranoia. Way to go, mon!

On-topic:
Even if there is a solution to the so-called problem, it will be denied, silenced out and eventually thrown into the trash, because the oil industry giants have already earned and keep earning loads of money, which they can use for any literally purpose they want. And I suppose, maintaining their bull**** business as long as possible is their primary goal around here.


On topic: that ETA on the vehicle is way too far away. The "answer" should hurry a little. I mean what will be the prices on gas by then? $10 a gallon? imo its too far away too say anything good about it.If we're to consider that specific vehicle as a solution, then you know, why the ETA is so long.

Mobilus
07-10-2008, 01:45 PM
Your logic must not include facts, science or empirically-observed events like what happened to our nearest celestial sister-planet. :rolleyes:

I guess your school cut astronomy and geology out of the curriculum right. What did they replace that with, extra funding for the football team?


The oil companies can't maintain a world-wide monopoly forever, there are many countries that could care less about US patent law and eventually they will make US citizens green with envy and drooling over cars that don't cost 200$ per week to drive. It's sick that the only way we can get people to care about climate change is through appealing to their greed but it's no secret that the IMF and World Bank have already estimated that the cost of not stopping global warming will be over 70 trillion dollars by 2050.

Takoru
07-10-2008, 02:20 PM
Its gonna be like the matrix.....where machine has blocked out the sun!
Anyways if the oil companies were corrupted, I'm sure the Supreme Court would take action and do something about it, I seriously doubt the oil companies can throw their lawyer army against the supreme court either. Besides I read and heard on the news that Gas stations make most of their money from the foods and drinks they sell, hardly any profit from the gas they sell.

Indefinite
07-10-2008, 09:36 PM
Your logic must not include facts, science or empirically-observed events like what happened to our nearest celestial sister-planet. :rolleyes:Science also includes estimates about a medieval warm period from a thousand years back, when there wasn't any modern industry.

Empirically observed events? We've got to know more about our solar system planets just lately, when they were already desert.
Besides, a bunch of numbers, theories and remote observations without a specific reason are 'empirically observed events' now? It's not like we keep bringing chunks of stuff from other planets to do research on them.


I guess your school cut astronomy and geology out of the curriculum right. What did they replace that with, extra funding for the football team?I guess your did, because you had to be bashed by a football at least once to be talking such crap. :wink:


The oil companies can't maintain a world-wide monopoly foreverOf course, they can't, but they'll do everything to maintain it for as long as possible.

there are many countries that could care less about US patent law and eventually they will make US citizens green with envy and drooling over cars that don't cost 200$ per week to drive.Regardless of which countries you have in mind, this can take a while. Meanwhile your precious rushing global warming problem will burn us alive.

It's sick that the only way we can get people to care about climate change is through appealing to their greedThat's no secret, nor novelty, that to get most people to care about something, you have to appeal to their greed. Welcome to the real world.

it's no secret that the IMF and World Bank have already estimated that the cost of not stopping global warming will be over 70 trillion dollars by 2050.Care to elaborate more about specific branches of 'not stopping global warming'? What does that term specifically include and what doesn't?
If you tell me something like 'just every part of our lives' or simply 'limiting gas emissions' in general, then well... all I'll have to say is 'uh-huh'. :eek7:

K? Pŕo?ćtiόnŹ
07-10-2008, 09:42 PM
The heat increase doesn't matter so much right now, when the arming occurs it will be in a rapid spiral based on saturation of greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere.I wish I had a crystal ball that could see into the future too :sad_smile:

Mobilus
07-11-2008, 11:41 AM
The data is conclusive and I am not going to repost myriad info. from other threads I've already posted.

Lets summarize all of this by saying: your denigrating attitudes are dangerous. If by the off-chance you are wrong then you and people like you who have control of public policy are wasting valuable time that we have to correct this problem.

Do you think when the worst happens that anyone will get any joy out of saying "I told you so" to the climate change deniers? I have a sickening feeling that because of the stupidity of our politicians that this is EXACTLY what will happen within our own lifespans. What will you tell your kids? That you had no warning and no way of knowing what was going to happen? Will you lie about all the people who tried to stop it or will you be honest about your scoffing and your ridicule?

They can't even point out any valid, specific scientific objections. Instead they offer vague, generalized conjectures that because it doesn't "feel" reasonable to them it shouldn't be believed.

This is a dangerous game, when you look hard at the data can you truly believe we can afford to take a risk that it isn't true?

Indefinite
07-11-2008, 12:10 PM
The data is conclusive and I am not going to repost myriad info. from other threads I've already posted.Like if I'd have nothing better to do than to bash through your posts and filter out the bull**** department section.


Lets summarize all of this by saying: your denigrating attitudes are dangerous.Let's summarize all of this by saying:
1. Global warming is a cycled process. There were, are and always will be periods of ice ages that will freeze your balls off alternating with warmer periods of time.
2. Our sister planets didn't have our modern industry to speed them up in their global warming 'dilemma', yet they still went south. Are we missing something here?
3. If something is eventually going to happen, sooner or later, my question is: why bother? And if you're going to say "to save our species/planet/whatever the ****", you've got another thing coming.


Do you think when the worst happens that anyone will get any joy out of saying "I told you so" to the climate change deniers?You, sir, sound like a prime candidate.


They can't even point out any valid, specific scientific objections. Instead they offer vague, generalized conjectures that because it doesn't "feel" reasonable to them it shouldn't be believed.That's called being lazy, for shortening.

Mobilus
07-11-2008, 12:22 PM
Keep forgetting about earth's ozone don't you? Can you really be stupid enough to believe that the ozone has ever-before been destroyed the way it is being now? Nature doesn't produce CFCs, only we do. There is NOTHING naturally occuring in nature that reacts with or destroys the ozone. End of story. That is what is unique and THAT is what has never happened before. Venus didn't have an ozone the way we do, the ozone is one of our last protectors, and when we destroy it there will be nothing to protect the earth especially if we go into a pole shift and lose our magnetic field then the atmosphere will be bombarded with all the radiation and heat and light normally absorbed by the ozone and the magnetic field. THE ONLY REASON LIFE ON EARTH HAS SURVIVED THROUGH ALL OF THE PREVIOUS POLE SHIFTS IS BECAUSE THE OZONE LAYER WAS INTACT. Man is about to end that protection.

Venus happened because of extreme volcanic out-gassing. The method is different here but the PROCESS is the same. Jesus christ you are dumb beyond belief. It's the damn greenhouse gasses. They don't have to be produced the same way in order to achieve the same effect, nor do they have to be the same. Venus went longer before spiraling out of control because it didn't have H20, it had sulfur and c02 which aren't as dense as H20. The danger on earth isn't from H20 leading up to the threshold, it is from us pouring out our own C02 into the air which will lead to the threshold, after that H20 will take over and bake the planet. Does it matter that Venus's C02 came from extreme volcanic activity and ours comes from industrial pollution and from cars? C02 is C02.

The important lesson from Venus is not the origin of the greenhouse gasses, but what happened when they reached a certain level of saturation in the atmosphere. They triggered a situation in which it got hotter so more heat was trapped in, more heat being trapped in accelerated the ionization of the atmosphere and then that traps more heat in, which ionizes the atmosphere even more. ETC. Once this process begins it is rapid and IRREVERSIBLE.

On earth it is worse, because instead of H2S04 and C02, we have the worst possible greenhouse gas. Ever go into a greenhouse and feel the humidity and heat? There's a reason it's called the "greenhouse effect."

I can't imagine how you would ever pass a science class. If you ever have the chance I think you should get up in front of a chemistry class and try telling them that c02 produced from industrial pollution is different from c02 out-gassed volcanically. Tell them that "god" told you so because I have a feeling they won't take your word for it. Of course, that's if you even get that far without being laughed out of the room.

CrazyGerbilEater
07-11-2008, 12:54 PM
lol funnyness

what happens happens, i doubt stopping all pollution this very second would in any way stop whatever is happening in the enviroment. enviromental shifts are of course extremly slow, and if we did in fact cause a shift, simply stopping pollution wont do ****.

if there is a problem, the only way to fix said problem would be artificial. as in man made. if the ozone is missing, pop another up there.


also, even if the usa drasticly changed, and stopped polluting on such a large scale(which would take years and years), china would step in, and probaly in 10 years produce more than the usa does now, added on to what it already does. and if you think your going to tell the chinese goverment what to and not to do, your ****ing out of your mind. the commies would probaly do the oppisite just out of spite.

i personaly am in favor of space colonies, and stations. ftw

sending trash into black holes or the sun == super ftw

Indefinite
07-11-2008, 10:05 PM
His psychosis goes way further than being simply funny. Ever thought of a shrink?
OMFG DESTROYING OZONE, OMFG GREENHOUSE EFFECT, OMFG CFCs.
OMFG HOW COULD YOU PASS SCIENCE CLASS?! Well, I have passed it and with a nice shiny result, you yammering psycho.

And CGE basically wrote the whole idea out in the post above.

K? Pŕo?ćtiόnŹ
07-12-2008, 12:01 AM
Do you think when the worst happens that anyone will get any joy out of saying "I told you so" to the climate change deniers?I'm sure Al Gore would.

How do you stop volcanos?

BD-ICY
07-12-2008, 12:19 AM
How do you stop volcanos?

Nukes.


Welllll....the ozone is already ****ed over....so...yeah theres nothing we can really do about that...wont all that radiation and stuff just leak through that huge ass hole?

LoyaL
07-13-2008, 12:51 AM
I love the global warming fanatics. It makes me feel better whenever i say something stupid.


Do some research on the emissions volcanoes let out, then think about how much more active the world used to be in the magma department. Then, realize the world has a cycle it follows, no matter what is happening on its surface. Can we make an impact? Sure. Could it possible be big enough to cause a huge deviation in the cycle? **** no. Do you realize how large a scale we are talking about?

I haven't done huge amounts of research into this, because frankly there aren't a lot of places to look. Almost everything is speculation and theory, with little to no fact baking it up. why bother? Stop wasting electricity Mobilus by posting here, maybe you will save the world all of a millisecond.

punture
07-13-2008, 11:19 PM
Lets pray we can reconstitute ozone because it doesn't repair naturally.

The ozone can repair naturally and it is already repairing itself right now...

Mobilus
07-14-2008, 02:59 PM
I love the global warming fanatics. It makes me feel better whenever i say something stupid.


Do some research on the emissions volcanoes let out, then think about how much more active the world used to be in the magma department. Then, realize the world has a cycle it follows, no matter what is happening on its surface. Can we make an impact? Sure. Could it possible be big enough to cause a huge deviation in the cycle? **** no. Do you realize how large a scale we are talking about?

I haven't done huge amounts of research into this, because frankly there aren't a lot of places to look. Almost everything is speculation and theory, with little to no fact baking it up. why bother? Stop wasting electricity Mobilus by posting here, maybe you will save the world all of a millisecond.
You're a ****ing idiot. Did the dinosaurs build CFC-producing machines or industry? What is wrong with you? Can you not understand that man's industrialization is the first time in history that the ozone has ever been depleted?


Punture, maybe you can link to some shred of proof that show that the ozone has reconstituted itself reliably? NASA has ongoing graphic records of the ozone on its website and the hole doesn't get smaller.


As to the rest of you doubting morons, I'm sure all of modern science trembles before your irrational skepticism.