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Mobilus
01-26-2008, 10:08 AM
AlterNet: War on Iraq: Study: Bushies Lied 935 Times to Sell Iraq Invasion (http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/74715/)


President George W. Bush and seven of his administration's top officials, including Vice President Dick Cheney, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, made at least 935 false statements in the two years following September 11, 2001, about the national security threat posed by Saddam Hussein's Iraq. Nearly five years after the U.S. invasion of Iraq, an exhaustive examination of the record shows that the statements were part of an orchestrated campaign that effectively galvanized public opinion and, in the process, led the nation to war under decidedly false pretenses.
On at least 532 separate occasions (in speeches, briefings, interviews, testimony, and the like), Bush and these three key officials, along with Secretary of State Colin Powell, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, and White House press secretaries Ari Fleischer and Scott McClellan, stated unequivocally that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction (or was trying to produce or obtain them), links to Al Qaeda, or both. This concerted effort was the underpinning of the Bush administration's case for war.



And remember, there were plenty of people pointing out most of these lies even back then, including the CIA, DIA, FBI, GAO, etc.




This study, from the Center for Public Integrity, has gone over hundreds of speeches, testimonies, and other press releases from the Bush admin. in which blatant mistruths that were known lies (ie: the people telling the lies knew they were lies because they didn't receive any intel. saying those things were true and were flat-out making them up or had contrary intel. so they shouldn't have claimed they were "irrefutable") were sold to the public during the two years between 9/11 and the Iraq War.




On August 26, 2002, in an address to the national convention of the Veteran of Foreign Wars, Cheney flatly declared: "Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. There is no doubt he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us." In fact, former CIA Director George Tenet later recalled, Cheney's assertions went well beyond his agency's assessments at the time. Another CIA official, referring to the same speech, told journalist Ron Suskind, "Our reaction was, 'Where is he getting this stuff from?' "

In July 2002, Rumsfeld had a one-word answer for reporters who asked whether Iraq had relationships with Al Qaeda terrorists: "Sure." In fact, an assessment issued that same month by the Defense Intelligence Agency (and confirmed weeks later by CIA Director Tenet) found an absence of "compelling evidence demonstrating direct cooperation between the government of Iraq and Al Qaeda." What's more, an earlier DIA assessment said that "the nature of the regime's relationship with Al Qaeda is unclear."

On February 5, 2003, in an address to the United Nations Security Council, Powell said: "What we're giving you are facts and conclusions based on solid intelligence. I will cite some examples, and these are from human sources." As it turned out, however, two of the main human sources to which Powell referred had provided false information. One was an Iraqi con artist, code-named "Curveball," whom American intelligence officials were dubious about and in fact had never even spoken to. The other was an Al Qaeda detainee, Ibn al-Sheikh al-Libi, who had reportedly been sent to Eqypt by the CIA and tortured and who later recanted the information he had provided. Libi told the CIA in January 2004 that he had "decided he would fabricate any information interrogators wanted in order to gain better treatment and avoid being handed over to [a foreign government]."


It's too bad the Democrats are such spineless money-grubbing cowards, because this warrants instant impeachment proceedings against Bush, Cheney and the rest of his lying, murdering admin.

John
01-26-2008, 10:18 AM
It doesn't surprise me. Well the elections are coming up so we can vote another criminal into office. yay . . . .

Raistlin
01-26-2008, 11:34 AM
I guess they weren't too concerned about these since they only want to call Bush a liar.


"Iraq made commitments after the Gulf War to completely dismantle all weapons of mass destruction, and unfortunately, Iraq has not lived up to its agreement."
-- Barbara Boxer

"There's no question that Saddam Hussein is a threat... Yes, he has chemical and biological weapons. He's had those for a long time. But the United States right now is on a very much different defensive posture than we were before September 11th of 2001... He is, as far as we know, actively pursuing nuclear capabilities, though he doesn't have nuclear warheads yet. If he were to acquire nuclear weapons, I think our friends in the region would face greatly increased risks as would we."
-- Wesley Clark

"What is at stake is how to answer the potential threat Iraq represents with the risk of proliferation of WMD. Baghdad's regime did use such weapons in the past. Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has continued armament programs."
-- Jacques Chirac

"There is a very easy way to prevent anyone from being put into harmís way, that is for Saddam Hussein to disarm. And I have absolutely no belief that he will. I have to say that this is something Iíve followed for more than a decade. If he were serious about disarming, he would have been much more forthcoming... I ended up voting for the resolution after carefully reviewing the information, intelligence that I had available, talking with people whose opinions I trusted, trying to discount the political or other factors that I didnít believe should be in any way part of this decision."
-- Hillary Clinton

"It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security."
-- Hillary Clinton

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members"
-- Sen. Hillary Clinton

"I am absolutely convinced that there are weapons...I saw evidence back in 1998 when we would see the inspectors being barred from gaining entry into a warehouse for three hours with trucks rolling up and then moving those trucks out."
-- William Cohen

"Iraq is not the only nation in the world to possess weapons of mass destruction, but it is the only nation with a leader who has used them against his own people."
-- Tom Daschle

"Saddam Hussein's regime represents a grave threat to America and our allies, including our vital ally, Israel. For more than two decades, Saddam Hussein has sought weapons of mass destruction through every available means. We know that he has chemical and biological weapons. He has already used them against his neighbors and his own people, and is trying to build more. We know that he is doing everything he can to build nuclear weapons, and we know that each day he gets closer to achieving that goal."
-- John Edwards

"The debate over Iraq is not about politics. It is about national security. It should be clear that our national security requires Congress to send a clear message to Iraq and the world: America is united in its determination to eliminate forever the threat of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction."
-- John Edwards

"I share the administration's goals in dealing with Iraq and its weapons of mass destruction."
-- Dick Gephardt

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
-- Al Gore

"Iraq does pose a serious threat to the stability of the Persian Gulf and we should organize an international coalition to eliminate his access to weapons of mass destruction. Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to completely deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
-- Al Gore

"Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Bob Graham

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein."
-- John Kerry

"I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
-- John Kerry

"The threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but as I said, it is not new. It has been with us since the end of that war, and particularly in the last 4 years we know after Operation Desert Fox failed to force him to reaccept them, that he has continued to build those weapons. He has had a free hand for 4 years to reconstitute these weapons, allowing the world, during the interval, to lose the focus we had on weapons of mass destruction and the issue of proliferation."
-- John Kerry

"He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime. We all know the litany of his offenses. He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. ...And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction. That is why the world, through the United Nations Security Council, has spoken with one voice, demanding that Iraq disclose its weapons programs and disarm. So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but it is not new. It has been with us since the end of the Persian Gulf War."
-- John Kerry

"Every day Saddam remains in power with chemical weapons, biological weapons, and the development of nuclear weapons is a day of danger for the United States."
-- Joe Lieberman

"Saddam's existing biological and chemical weapons capabilities pose a very real threat to America, now. Saddam has used chemical weapons before, both against Iraq's enemies and against his own people. He is working to develop delivery systems like missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles that could bring these deadly weapons against U.S. forces and U.S. facilities in the Middle East."
-- John Rockefeller

"I don't think there can be any question about Saddam's conduct. He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do. He lies and cheats; he snubs the mandate and authority of international weapons inspectors; and he games the system to keep buying time against enforcement of the just and legitimate demands of the United Nations, the Security Council, the United States and our allies. Those are simply the facts."
-- Henry Waxman

"Whereas Iraq has consistently breached its cease-fire agreement between Iraq and the United States, entered into on March 3, 1991, by failing to dismantle its weapons of mass destruction program, and refusing to permit monitoring and verification by United Nations inspections; Whereas Iraq has developed weapons of mass destruction, including chemical and biological capabilities, and has made positive progress toward developing nuclear weapons capabilities"
-- joint resolution by Tom Harkin and Arlen Specter

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
-- Nancy Pelosi

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
-- Letter to President Bush, signed by Sen. Bob Graham and others

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
-- Carl Levin

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
-- Ted Kennedy

"There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein's regime is a serious danger, that he is a tyrant, and that his pursuit of lethal weapons of mass destruction cannot be tolerated. He must be disarmed."
-- Ted Kennedy

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
-- Sen. Robert Byrd

"Over the years, Iraq has worked to develop nuclear, chemical and biological weapons. During 1991 - 1994, despite Iraq's denials, U.N. inspectors discovered and dismantled a large network of nuclear facilities that Iraq was using to develop nuclear weapons. Various reports indicate that Iraq is still actively pursuing nuclear weapons capability. There is no reason to think otherwise. Beyond nuclear weapons, Iraq has actively pursued biological and chemical weapons.U.N. inspectors have said that Iraq's claims about biological weapons is neither credible nor verifiable. In 1986, Iraq used chemical weapons against Iran, and later, against its own Kurdish population. While weapons inspections have been successful in the past, there have been no inspections since the end of 1998. There can be no doubt that Iraq has continued to pursue its goal of obtaining weapons of mass destruction."
-- Patty Murray

BD-ICY
01-26-2008, 11:39 AM
Goddamn thats alot of lies...

Raistlin
01-26-2008, 11:41 AM
You mean the Bush quotes or the Democrat ones? :rolleyes:

Mobilus
01-26-2008, 11:43 AM
It's funny how Bush apologists like Raistlin will post quotes from democratic legislators who at one time supported the war as if they are valid intelligence. Duh, hello, Congress only saw the pieces of intel. that the executive branch wanted them to see since the executive branch controls all those intel. agencies....
Now that the war is over we can go back and see how the Bush admin. controlled what was reported to Congress and how they submerged the protests of the majority of the intelligence agencies.

I'll take the CIA, FBI, DIA and military intelligence over congressional sound-bites any day.

Raistlin
01-26-2008, 12:22 PM
Duh, hello, Congress only saw the pieces of intel. that the executive branch wanted them to see since the executive branch controls all those intel. agencies....
Actually, many of these Democrats are on record saying Saddam had the weapons BEFORE the Bush administration ever made the case. But the bold typeface and words like "Duh" do help your argument.


Now that the war is over we can go back and see how the Bush admin. controlled what was reported to Congress and how they submerged the protests of the majority of the intelligence agencies.

The Senate Intelligence Committee (both parties) did just that, and came up with nothing.

PocketRevolution
01-26-2008, 02:41 PM
[/b]
Actually, many of these Democrats are on record saying Saddam had the weapons BEFORE the Bush administration ever made the case. But the bold typeface and words like "Duh" do help your argument.


I'm pretty sure that this point you're raising here does nothing to discount what he's saying. As I understand it, he means that the republicans and the democrats were lied to by the intelligence agencies they both get their information from. Not only is it possible that this pattern of lies would begin long before the instance in which it was needed (the final push to war), it is very likely. This type of technique works better when implemented over a period of time.

The lengthy list of quotes you provided shows that at one time, a wide variety of politicans were supporting a position which has since been shown to be false. We can surmise that they are all either liars, or believed something which was untrue. So the question then arises, from where did all these politicians get all this untrue information?

Raistlin
01-27-2008, 06:40 AM
I'm pretty sure that this point you're raising here does nothing to discount what he's saying. As I understand it, he means that the republicans and the democrats were lied to by the intelligence agencies they both get their information from.

That is not what he means at all.


Now that the war is over we can go back and see how the Bush admin. controlled what was reported to Congress and how they submerged the protests of the majority of the intelligence agencies

Mobilus
01-27-2008, 10:11 AM
No, almost all of those people only said those things about Iraq AFTER the Bush admin. started telling them those specifics.

Raistlin
01-27-2008, 10:45 AM
No, almost all of those people only said those things about Iraq AFTER the Bush admin. started telling them those specifics.

No, a good number of Democrats said Saddam had WMD in the period from 1998 until the time that the Bush administration began making the case. In addition, most of the statements made by Democrats around 2001-2002 were in absence of seeing any new intelligence or being convinced by the Bush administration, and were simply a reflection of the common consensus at the time. The majority of their party continued to say so based on intelligence information during the build-up to the war. When did they finally change their tune? When public opinion began to shift.

Mobilus
01-27-2008, 11:24 PM
The majority of those above quotes from 1998? From even before 2002?

Here's the thing, when you said 1998 I suddenly remembered who was all about Iraq in 1998...

PNAC
Letter to President Clinton on Iraq (http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm)


Not exactly the democrats by any stretch of the imagination.

Death(innocent)
01-27-2008, 11:41 PM
Personally my friend got (who was in ny on buisiness at the time) video taped the entire thing, i noticed something on a close up, the building exploded something like 1.34 seconds before the plane actually hit, with the way the plane hit the building it literally defied the laws of physics (i did ask a physics teacher on this matter) but then again i dont want to be shot for makeing george bush look like what he realy is ( a greedy texas oil boy...) he just wanted a reason to invade iraq for the oil... think about it..

Raistlin
01-28-2008, 02:42 AM
Not exactly the democrats by any stretch of the imagination.

You seem to think the absence of Democrats on that particular letter to the president means that the Democrats didn't make all of the WMD statements that they have made.

They did.

Raistlin
01-28-2008, 02:46 AM
Personally my friend got (who was in ny on buisiness at the time) video taped the entire thing, i noticed something on a close up, the building exploded something like 1.34 seconds before the plane actually hit, with the way the plane hit the building it literally defied the laws of physics (i did ask a physics teacher on this matter) but then again i dont want to be shot for makeing george bush look like what he realy is ( a greedy texas oil boy...) he just wanted a reason to invade iraq for the oil... think about it..

If you believe 9/11 was an inside job I suggest you read the popular mechanics study that thoroughly debunked the claims of the 9/11 conspiracy theorists including the ones made in "Loose Change".

The people who were concerned about oil in Iraq were the countries who were against invading due to their billions of dollars in illegal oil contracts that were going to be discovered and interrupted due to the war.

EDIT: Whoops, double post

Mobilus
01-28-2008, 08:45 AM
Then how about dating those quotes for us hmmm?

Raistlin
01-28-2008, 10:51 AM
The majority of those above quotes from 1998? From even before 2002?

You really can't stand the idea that the Democrats were already saying Saddam had WMD before Bush said it. I'm sorry but it's true:

Nancy Pelosi - 1998
Sandy Bergher - 1998
Frank Lautenburg - 1998
Madeline Albright - 1999
Harold Ford - 2001
John Breax - 1998
Tim Johnson - 1998
Joseph Lieberman - 2001
Mary Landrieu - 1998
Daniel Inouye - 1998
Bob Graham - 2001
John Kerry - 1998
John Kerry - 2001
Tom Daschle - 1998
Joseph Biden - 1998
Barbara Milulski - 1998
Carl Levin - 1998
Tom Lantos - 2001
Al Gore - 1998
Dianne Feinstein - 1998
Dick Durbin - 1999
Bill Richardson - 1998
Christopher Dodd - 1998


I only listed a few of the available quotes in my original post and they were a mix of pre-2002 and post-2002.

And of course, the quotes from 2002 onward can't be dismissed just because Bush was also starting to say Saddam had WMD along with the Democrats who had been saying so for some time already.

Mobilus
01-28-2008, 06:59 PM
Er, how come no links?

Besides, even if they did it still doesn't make it OK for Bush to lie, so they are all lying scumbag politicians, so what? Bush was the President and was the only one with the authority to wage war and command the military, his lies wind up getting people killed.

I'd like you to watch this video compilation of Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Powell, Rice, etc. It shows them actually lying. When I say lying it shows them saying exactly opposite things. It has a bit of dramatic background music and thematic editing surrounding the clips, but what is important is the footage of the actual Bush admin. officials and what they are saying.


WMD LIES - THE ULTIMATE CLIP - DEVASTATING!!! SEE BUSH, CHENEY, RUMSFELD ETC. LYING (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4020942126602414364&q=rumsfeld+lies&total=309&start=10&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=6)

Raistlin
01-29-2008, 08:25 AM
Er, how come no links?

Do you really think I made those dates up? Want to be wrong again?


Bush was the President and was the only one with the authority to wage war and command the military, his lies wind up getting people killed.

No, the Democrats also had authority as they were the ones who got to vote to give Bush his authority, and they overwhelmingly voted "Yes". The authority given to Bush was granted to him by the Democrats using their authority, the responsibility and authority lies with both. And since the Democrats were saying the same thing as Bush, they weren't Bush's lies, they belong to Bush and the Republicans AND the Democrats who were saying the same thing.

Mobilus
01-29-2008, 10:13 AM
Are you an idiot? The Congress also votes to give Bush the authority to independantly decide to launch retaliatory nuclear strikes, to deploy the military in emergency situations or police actions without extra Congressional consent, etc.

The actual specific Iraq resolutions, as well as the 9/11 Afghanistan resolutions were very limited in scope and many people felt Bush went beyond their mandate.

But that is besides the point. Congress grants and rescinds powers, authorities, and vague mission-goals to the executive branch all the time. Mostly these are never used or attempted. Just because Congress voted to give Bush the authority to deal with Iraq "if needed" is not a reason by itself for Bush to decide to go to war.

It is funny that when Bush was elected in 2000 he was chosen largely because he campaigned as someone who was moral and would restore and "dignity and honesty" of the whitehouse after the whole Clinton saga. That's funny, because while other candidates don't come out say in their campaigns that they are going to be dishonest, not many people used to campaign with "honesty" as a platform because it is ridiculous to assume anyone would plan on being dishonest and then tell the public, and because the actual political issues were far more important. BUT, Bush WAS an "honesty" candidate and has turned out to be one of the most dishonest Presidents we have ever had. Unfortunately, his lies have cost the American people far more than any other lies have ever hurt us.

Raistlin
01-29-2008, 10:42 AM
Congress grants and rescinds powers, authorities, and vague mission-goals to the executive branch all the time. Mostly these are never used or attempted.

Face the facts... you have two parties who were both saying the same thing. And you have two parties who both supported granting the President authority when he went to them based on the common consensus that Saddam had WMD. No, I am not an idiot, what is idiotic (and blatantly partisan) is your insistence on using the phrase "Bush's lies" when you are talking about statements made by both parties.


Just because Congress voted to give Bush the authority to deal with Iraq "if needed" is not a reason by itself for Bush to decide to go to war.

No, but it grants him the authority to go to war if needed - i.e., if Saddam didn't cooperate with the weapons inspectors and finally disclose/disarm all WMD and WMD programs.