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shadder49
09-23-2007, 10:24 AM
Well, youíve seen a lot of posts on this site about Linux and Free and Open Source Software on this very site. Mostly all of it has been pro-Linux. So here, to balance the scales, is the other side of the story! :woop:


No Games! Or at least, not many games to speak of. No, I donít mean running an emulator to support Windows games. No, I donít mean the emulators for arcade and Nintendo. I want to play, not emulate. Native, platform games, made for it and working with it. No, I donít mean some text-mode rogue thing or the nerdy little puzzle games that come with Gnome and KDE. When will Linux decide to pay more attention to the FUN side?
Chasing Windows. Seriously, itís nice that most distros went from all the command and console stuff to a full desktop-capable system like Macs and Windows. Now it needs to find its own look. Too many distros out there are trying to be a perfect clone of Windows XP; if I want XP, I know where to find it. Get Linux over its insecurity complex and have it make up its own ďlook and feelĒ already!
All the hardware is supported - except mine. Can I get this digital camera working? 800 drivers for digital cameras - nope mine isnít on the list. What about this wireless card? Dozens of brands supported - whoops, I bought the wrong one! Iím tired of playing hardware bingo - either Iím very unlucky at it, or thereís still some big holes to fill.
Problems coming up to a desktop. At least detect good default settings for a monitor and video card, and then give me an easy way to fix the size and color depth if I need to. Many, many distros do this, so the ones that donít and either haul off and boot me to a plaid striped letterbox screen or leave me at a console trying to guess what my monitorís vertical refresh rate is are even guiltier by comparison. Itís all open source, so the distros that get it wrong can just borrow from the ones that get it right, right?
Inner-Linux flame wars. KDE vs. Gnome! Emacs vs. vi! Ubuntu vs. Mandriva! All of these are fought just as feverishly as if theyÖ. cost money. Hey, youíre giving it all away for free, so who cares what anybody uses?
FOSS Purity. OK, I loaded a closed-source driver onto my system so my video card will work. Do I have to be nailed to a wall for it? Yes, I know open source is the One True Way - and if all the drivers are open one day, that will make me very happy. In the mean time, I care about what works first. Ditto the haggling over licenses - thereís forty of them, most of them differ in one or two details, and thinking about legal stuff gives the user side of me a headache.
Obsession over taking over from Windows. When is the year of Linux on the desktop? Who cares? Look, again, youíre giving it away for free, so if you take over 98% of Microsoftís market share, you are ahead exactly how far?
Linux devotees are too serious. Because you canít post a list like this and not have a bunch of them come flame you. Lighten up. Your systemís fine. We love you. Youíre big enough now to take your beating along with the other platforms

Otaku
09-23-2007, 10:45 AM
Where's the copypasta from?

HARD_ON
09-23-2007, 10:46 AM
No profit is the reason for all of those questions. No profit, because everything is open.

Linux is great, BTW. I'd totally use it if my Mac was more supported. Also, I'm no heavy-devvy.

Dick
09-23-2007, 10:47 AM
Most of the problems you posted weren't the os's fault, it's the developers fault for not supporting Linux for the content you desire so much.

deathknot
09-23-2007, 11:03 AM
There is native games for linux, check your repositories for ones that are more to your likeing. Also all of ids current computer games have native linux versions.

Super
09-23-2007, 11:09 AM
Windows has much less hassle than linux. Sure linux is more stable and more straight to the point, but it requires too much effort for the casual pc user. If I was ever doing any important work on which my career depended on, then I'd use linux.

llafnwod
09-23-2007, 11:10 AM
Additionally, if there is something for which you absolutely must use Windows, there is a revolutionary new process called "Dual-Booting" from which you can - get this - load either of two operating systems on startup, or indeed, from as many as you'd like! What'll these crazy techies think up next?

Super
09-23-2007, 11:12 AM
Sorry, I'm a true American. I like pressing the power button, walking away, and then coming back when the OS has booted. No dual-boot selection screen for me.

BloodyBlade
09-23-2007, 11:44 AM
Most boot screens automatically choose your primary OS after a certain amount of seconds...

Super
09-23-2007, 11:52 AM
Yes, but booting from my secondary OS would require me to wait. I had ubuntu for a while. I really saw no practical use for it. Since I downloaded the version of xp I'm using now, I've yet to have windows "crash" or force me to restart.

BloodyBlade
09-23-2007, 11:54 AM
Same, I don't use linux at all anymore.

I've got Ubuntu as a virtual machine and thats about it.

gamepin126
09-23-2007, 11:58 AM
I see linux more as a tool, than a replacement OS for me.

Shadder, I'd put you to shame by responding directly to all the ignorance contained in your post, but you're not worth my time as it'd be pointless cuz you'd learn nothing. Grow the **** up.

Uniquely_Defined
09-23-2007, 01:58 PM
I see linux more as a tool, than a replacement OS for me.

Shadder, I'd put you to shame by responding directly to all the ignorance contained in your post, but you're not worth my time as it'd be pointless cuz you'd learn nothing. Grow the **** up.If I were to say you're overly presumptuous would you learn anything? =o

And as for Linux I honestly don't see the point in loading it when windows has everything that I need. The only applicable use I see it having for the people I talk to is so that they can sound more familiar with computers/uber. I'm sure I could do some research on the matter and realize that it has a tool or two that I'd like to use, but by the time that happened I could have written another entire myspace survey. Priorities, priorities...

YonderKnight
09-23-2007, 10:47 PM
I don't personally use linux, but I plan to once I get my own computer. My main reason is because I love tweaking things around and I hope to one day be able to customize my computer exactly the way I want it. This is what linux is perfect for. Everything is open source - if you don't like something, then change it!

saren
09-24-2007, 02:10 AM
I don't personally use linux, but I plan to once I get my own computer. My main reason is because I love tweaking things around and I hope to one day be able to customize my computer exactly the way I want it. This is what linux is perfect for. Everything is open source - if you don't like something, then change it!

Careful, you can **** an entire install doing that. Especially when it comes time to auto-kernel patch.

Indefinite
09-24-2007, 08:28 AM
Where does this stupidity come from?
You can always virtualize a Windows on Linux and vice versa, if you miss some features.
And even if you don't like either of those, just because some things aren't supported, nobody forces you to use it.

XGhozt
09-24-2007, 08:56 AM
I'd use linux because my "Why Windows XP sucks" list is bigger.

saren
09-24-2007, 11:00 AM
I'd use linux because my "Why Windows XP sucks" list is bigger.

Buh? I'd like to see this list. Win XP is a pretty damn solid OS. Even MS haters know that.

XGhozt
09-24-2007, 06:10 PM
Buh? I'd like to see this list. Win XP is a pretty damn solid OS. Even MS haters know that.
http://www.ghoztcraft.net/Uploader/files/1/tehlist.PNG
Well, would you look at that. :rolleyes:
The tides are turning!

gamepin126
09-24-2007, 06:15 PM
Learn how to ****ing google, holy **** you're so ****ing dumb.

XGhozt
09-24-2007, 06:17 PM
Learn how to ****ing google, holy **** you're so ****ing dumb.

We got the same results, Prick.

Super
09-24-2007, 06:18 PM
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/7261/untitled4mw1.jpg

edit: **** pooner beat me.

gamepin126
09-24-2007, 06:18 PM
We got the same results, Prick.

plus or minus 2million...

XGhozt
09-24-2007, 06:18 PM
Whatever.. Like I care to put that much ****ing effort into it.

gamepin126
09-24-2007, 06:19 PM
Whatever.. Like I care to put that much ****ing effort into it.

:fine:

XGhozt
09-24-2007, 06:22 PM
:fine:
**** you, http://www.ghoztcraft.net/Uploader/files/1/boomheadshot.PNG
(boom headshot)

gamepin126
09-24-2007, 06:24 PM
did i hurt widdle casper's feewings?

XGhozt
09-24-2007, 06:26 PM
:lol:

lpxxfaintxx
09-24-2007, 06:35 PM
Actually, Windows XP is a pretty stable OS now. I'm sure Vista will be too, in 2-4 years.

gamepin126
09-24-2007, 08:44 PM
Actually, Windows XP is a pretty stable OS now. I'm sure Vista will be too, in 2-4 years.

It didn't take 2-4 years for SP2 to come out. It's been stable for a very long time now.

MiCrOz
09-24-2007, 08:52 PM
I see linux more as a tool, than a replacement OS for me.
Agreed



What'll these crazy techies think up next?
:fun:

Zhuinden
09-27-2007, 09:17 AM
Yo, about No Games, I kinda miss MOAGG for Windows.

Anyways, I'm an XP user, and I don't really like linux because there is no Windows Live Messenger on it. But at least Linux isn't made to purposely eat your computer resources, like Vista, Firefox, Opera, Internet Explorer, WLM, etc. And XP would be a perfect OS if you could select what stuff you don't need, like Alexa (the program that scans what websites you browse and makes a list about it).

Polie13
09-27-2007, 01:48 PM
Linux is more based around running dedicated servers and messing with things like that, but I still like Linux as over-all OS too, it's more then customizable and completely open, can't beat that =P

XGhozt
09-27-2007, 03:13 PM
Yo, about No Games, I kinda miss MOAGG for Windows.

Anyways, I'm an XP user, and I don't really like linux because there is no Windows Live Messenger on it. But at least Linux isn't made to purposely eat your computer resources, like Vista, Firefox, Opera, Internet Explorer, WLM, etc. And XP would be a perfect OS if you could select what stuff you don't need, like Alexa (the program that scans what websites you browse and makes a list about it).

You can..
Start > Run (Windows-R):
1. services.msc
2. msconfig.

...ta-da..

punture
09-27-2007, 10:36 PM
What about Unix...

gamepin126
09-27-2007, 10:54 PM
What about Unix...

What about it?

SC_Modder
09-28-2007, 11:36 AM
You can..
Start > Run (Windows-R):
1. services.msc
2. msconfig.

...ta-da..

Doing that is incredibly unreliable. Believe me, disabling the wrong services can cause lots of random things to not work, and then you'll have to go back and try to figure out what service it is that you ****ed up.

XGhozt
09-29-2007, 11:09 PM
http://www.sarda.es/fotos/linux-o-windows/linux.jpg

Cantinflas
09-29-2007, 11:39 PM
thats a nasty hoe

XGhozt
09-29-2007, 11:41 PM
I lol'ed.

kyleshome
10-02-2007, 12:29 PM
One linux user here.

The lack of games is =(, but I can play starcraft just fine with the right wine tweaks. So I'm happy.

Zaund
10-11-2007, 08:49 PM
Yeah Linux is tricky with games. But Linux is much nicer than a Mac. You should try to find a PC emulator for games.

n0.obAtroN
10-12-2007, 07:55 AM
There seems to be some doubt in people's mind as to if linux is the best sh*t out there. So, I wrote this quick article, Enjoy:

The wonderfull thing that makes linux linux is the fact that it is open source. Almost all aplications on linux are also open source. The really big advantages to this is:

#1. YOU can see + modify the code

#2. No secrets. Because it is open source there are alot of people out there looking at the source. This means no virus's, trojans, or just plain ****ty software.

#3. No Bugs. Ever found a bug in a open source application? Since their are so many people using the same application it is most likely they found the bug also. Now one of them (if not the developer) is going to fix the bug and submit a patch for it. Wonderful thing about open source. If it doesnt get fixed, fix it yourself or submit the bug to a developer.

#4. Open source developers dont have to factor in the buisness Sh*t. They dont have deadlines, so they take their time and make the code work very well. They have to use the application, so again they make it work well. They dont have to consider in the costs. Microsoft has to say "Will it cost more money to fix it, or to just leave it". By the way, most of the time it is: "just leave it".

#5. FREE. FREE. FREE. FREE. FREE.

#6. Extremely customizable. Extreme Eye Candy. Check out this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4Fbk52Mk1w

#7. Runs on ANYTHING. Hell, they got linux for the psp, ipod, ps2, ps3, gamecube, PDA's, etc. If you have something that linux cant support, ask yourself this question "Is that a potatoe chip, or a processor chip?"

#8. Extremely fast and portable. The happy spot for Windows Vista is 4 gigs of ram and a 2.4+ GHz dual core processor and a 256 mb graphics card. Now that is a pretty hefty computer, a mighty expensive on too. That is what you have to buy to be able to get the basic "Aero Effects" like transparent windows. With linux I can get transparency, burning windows, 3D desktop, and a sh*tload more to run on a 1.8 GHz single core + 512 mb of ram + 64 mb graphics card. I dunno about you, but thats a hell of a difference to me.

#9. No applications. Well lets just say this: There are 159,750 open source projects on sourceforge.net alone. Yah, let me tell you, theres ABSOLUTELY NO SOFTWARE FOR LINUX.

#10. Thanks to the wonderfull wine (http://www.winehq.org/) project linux can run almost ALL windows applications. You dont hear Microsoft boasting about windows being able to run mac or linux software.

#11. Games? Wheres the Games? here dumbass:
First Person Shooter:
--> Nexuiz: http://alientrap.org/nexuiz/
--> Cube 1/Sauerbraten (Cube 2): http://cubeengine.com/
--> Open Alien Arena 2007: http://cor.planetquake.gamespy.com/arena/
--> Tremulous: http://www.tremulous.net/

Real Time Strategy
--> Stargus: stargus.sf.net
--> Stratagus/BOS Wars: http://www.boswars.org/
--> Glest: http://www.glest.org/
--> Warzone2100: http://wz2100.net/
Those are just the few I could find in 5 minutes. There are a total of 13,958 open source games on sourceforge.net alone.

#12. Secure. over 70% of the US Government pc's run linux. Why? becuase its secure. SELinux (http://www.nsa.gov/selinux/) is a modified kernal (which most distros have now) To make it extremely secure. It was made by the NSA, National Security Agency.

#13. Ever got a virus? hell, I get them all the time. Uttorrent, Limewire, and hacks that have been hacked. In the year 2000 there were over 50,000 known and ACTIVE viruses for Microsoft Windows. Linux: 15 non-active viruses. In 2005 there were a reported 103,000 viruses for windows, linux: a total of 52. Ever tried coding a virus for linux? If you ever do (which I have), within the first day you will be saying this: "Damn. F*ck this. Too damn secure and to hard to code a virus for it, I give up"

#14. War. War. War. Vi vs Emacs. Gentoo vs Debian. No dumbass. Since their are so many applications its just a matter of finding which one you like and voicing your oppinion. Compitition is good in the open source world, gives the users a simple choice and the developers a motive. Its not only linux, If you really want to get critical: Microsoft vs Novell, EAGames vs Blizzard, Norton vs Mcaffee vs Avira vs Panda vs who know what else.

So maybe Windows is a good thing, maybe it is: Without windows hundreds of people would be out of jobs at both novell and microsoft. Antivirus and security companies like Symantec, Avira, Mcaffee would all go out of buisness. Hundreds of people unemloyed in the call centers in India.

So there is one good thing windows has done: Givin your dady his job....

^^ may linux and open source rule the world!

EDIT: Screenshots+Aditional links:

http://rich99.com/images/table_final_tmb.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d9/Htlasteroids.jpg

http://www.linuxgames.com/crusader/images/coldwarsearch.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3b/Fs2_scp_deimos.png

http://games.mymyah.com/Shooters/TCElite/TCElite1.jpg

http://yamz.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/nexuiz1.jpg

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/8742/americasarmybd6.jpg

http://www.linux-magazin.de/var/linux_magazin/storage/images/media/linux_magazin/ausgabe/2002/02/brave_gnu_world/vegastrike_terrain1_jpg/49455-1-ger-DE/vegastrike_terrain1_jpg.jpg

http://83.15.236.10/allegro/flightgear/vega_strike-3.jpg

http://www.divogames.com/games/astroavenger/screenshots/shot_640.jpg

http://www.itreviews.co.uk/graphics/normal/games/g252.jpg

http://www.igniq.com/images/star_wraith4200804.jpg

http://www.fathersfate.com.mx/images/beryl-abril07.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/78/Compiz-Fusion-Firepaint.png/750px-Compiz-Fusion-Firepaint.png

http://www.theopensourcerer.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/compiz-fusion.png

http://blog.slyon.de/wp-content/fusion.thumbnail.jpg

http://pollycoke.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/compiz-fusion_screenlets.png

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/7894/instantnea3pi8.png

Lastly, Bizzard favorites on linux:

http://www.mandrake.tips.4.free.fr/screenshots92/wine_starcraft_1.png

http://www.wowwiki.com/images/thumb/2/22/WoWonLniux.jpg/800px-WoWonLniux.jpg

rellikmok
10-16-2007, 01:46 PM
Everything has its place, or it wouldn't exist.

n0.obAtroN
10-16-2007, 01:55 PM
Everything has its place, or it wouldn't exist.

Like I said, its a big economic gain, even if people are wasting their money. :stare:

TheUndermind
10-16-2007, 02:31 PM
Lest Hear It For Crystal XP!!!!

dragonnas
10-16-2007, 02:34 PM
#9. No applications. Well lets just say this: There are 159,750 open source projects on sourceforge.net alone. Yah, let me tell you, theres ABSOLUTELY NO SOFTWARE FOR LINUX.

#11. Games? Wheres the Games? here dumbass:
First Person Shooter:
--> Nexuiz: Nexuiz (http://alientrap.org/nexuiz/)
--> Cube 1/Sauerbraten (Cube 2): Cube Engine Games (http://cubeengine.com/)
--> Open Alien Arena 2007: CodeRED - Alien Arena (http://cor.planetquake.gamespy.com/arena/)
--> Tremulous: T R E M U L O U S :: NEWS (http://www.tremulous.net/)

Real Time Strategy
--> Stargus: stargus.sf.net
--> Stratagus/BOS Wars: Bos Wars (http://www.boswars.org/)
--> Glest: Glest, A free 3d RTS (real time strategy) project, Proyecto libre de estrategia en tiempo real (RTS) :. (http://www.glest.org/)
--> Warzone2100: Home | Warzone 2100 Resurrection Project (http://wz2100.net/)
Those are just the few I could find in 5 minutes. There are a total of 13,958 open source games on sourceforge.net alone.


13,958 games that noone's ever heard of. Where's Halo, bitch?

CrazyGerbilEater
10-16-2007, 06:42 PM
where xp and crystal meth meet up

Perma
10-25-2007, 02:33 PM
Sorry to bump this, but I'm installing Ubuntu on my laptop. Is the video that Noobatron showed a plugin for it?

Polie13
10-25-2007, 07:17 PM
Sorry to bump this, but I'm installing Ubuntu on my laptop. Is the video that Noobatron showed a plugin for it?

Most things for one linux distro comes for another one so it's pretty safe to assume

exzapel
10-26-2007, 10:11 AM
Well, youíve seen a lot of posts on this site about Linux and Free and Open Source Software on this very site. Mostly all of it has been pro-Linux. So here, to balance the scales, is the other side of the story! :woop:

No Games! Or at least, not many games to speak of. No, I donít mean running an emulator to support Windows games. No, I donít mean the emulators for arcade and Nintendo. I want to play, not emulate. Native, platform games, made for it and working with it. No, I donít mean some text-mode rogue thing or the nerdy little puzzle games that come with Gnome and KDE. When will Linux decide to pay more attention to the FUN side? There are projects for Linux that allow you to run Windows applications, although this isn't a 100% compatibility, it's more than functional.
Chasing Windows. Seriously, itís nice that most distros went from all the command and console stuff to a full desktop-capable system like Macs and Windows. Now it needs to find its own look. Too many distros out there are trying to be a perfect clone of Windows XP; if I want XP, I know where to find it. Get Linux over its insecurity complex and have it make up its own ďlook and feelĒ already! Developers only go by their user's needs and requests, which happens to be a windows-like interface. That, and command line is Linux' "true" interface, it is in no way chasing Windows.
All the hardware is supported - except mine. Can I get this digital camera working? 800 drivers for digital cameras - nope mine isnít on the list. What about this wireless card? Dozens of brands supported - whoops, I bought the wrong one! Iím tired of playing hardware bingo - either Iím very unlucky at it, or thereís still some big holes to fill. Blame this on the hardware manufacturers, they simply ignore Linux when making drivers, which is unfortunate, but in no way the fault of the Linux developers.
Problems coming up to a desktop. At least detect good default settings for a monitor and video card, and then give me an easy way to fix the size and color depth if I need to. Many, many distros do this, so the ones that donít and either haul off and boot me to a plaid striped letterbox screen or leave me at a console trying to guess what my monitorís vertical refresh rate is are even guiltier by comparison. Itís all open source, so the distros that get it wrong can just borrow from the ones that get it right, right? This statement is just plain ignorant. Not all (very few) distros are designed for the normal end-user who would have a problem with the functionality right after the installation, and the ones that do ake great care in ensuring that hey have the maximum out-of-the-box functionality.
Inner-Linux flame wars. KDE vs. Gnome! Emacs vs. vi! Ubuntu vs. Mandriva! All of these are fought just as feverishly as if theyÖ. cost money. Hey, youíre giving it all away for free, so who cares what anybody uses? You're retarded. Everyone's always going to have flame wars and debaes about what's best, free or not. Not to mention that one distro isn't good for everyone, so they're going to defend the one that is good for them when others attack it. Hell, we even have flame wars here about which hack is best, even though said hacks are free (usually).

FOSS Purity. OK, I loaded a closed-source driver onto my system so my video card will work. Do I have to be nailed to a wall for it? Yes, I know open source is the One True Way - and if all the drivers are open one day, that will make me very happy. In the mean time, I care about what works first. Ditto the haggling over licenses - thereís forty of them, most of them differ in one or two details, and thinking about legal stuff gives the user side of me a headache. Since when is the law ever simple?
Obsession over taking over from Windows. When is the year of Linux on the desktop? Who cares? Look, again, youíre giving it away for free, so if you take over 98% of Microsoftís market share, you are ahead exactly how far? This is a problem on part of the users, not the developers, sure, some developers do want to take Windows down a notch, but this isn't a problem with just Linux, as much as every other operating system that isn't Windows.
Linux devotees are too serious. Because you canít post a list like this and not have a bunch of them come flame you. Lighten up. Your systemís fine. We love you. Youíre big enough now to take your beating along with the other platforms Everything I just said is from my perspective as a Windows user, and don't you think YOU'RE the one being a little too serious?
Retard.

saren
10-26-2007, 05:04 PM
Sorry to bump this, but I'm installing Ubuntu on my laptop. Is the video that Noobatron showed a plugin for it?

Linux on a laptop?.....Why?

Perma
10-26-2007, 05:12 PM
Because it's ridiculously faster than the Microsoft bloatware that the laptop came with. There's also nothing important on my laptop, so it makes it a good lab rat for different operating systems.

saren
10-26-2007, 05:35 PM
Because it's ridiculously faster than the Microsoft bloatware that the laptop came with. There's also nothing important on my laptop, so it makes it a good lab rat for different operating systems.

You must not have a lean version of XP running.

In any case, just surprising, since a laptop is meant to do portable work. Not really linux's thing.

Perma
10-26-2007, 05:38 PM
It came with Vista.

saren
10-26-2007, 05:39 PM
When are we going to finally tie the knot, perma?

BendowsXP
10-29-2007, 01:08 PM
I use WindowsXP media center.So I can not be retarded lol.(yours consists of 18 less homers spinning in a circle.):woop:

StarteR2
10-31-2007, 08:53 AM
Well, you’ve seen a lot of posts on this site about Linux and Free and Open Source Software on this very site. Mostly all of it has been pro-Linux. So here, to balance the scales, is the other side of the story! :woop:


No Games! Or at least, not many games to speak of. No, I don’t mean running an emulator to support Windows games. No, I don’t mean the emulators for arcade and Nintendo. I want to play, not emulate. Native, platform games, made for it and working with it. No, I don’t mean some text-mode rogue thing or the nerdy little puzzle games that come with Gnome and KDE. When will Linux decide to pay more attention to the FUN side?
Chasing Windows. Seriously, it’s nice that most distros went from all the command and console stuff to a full desktop-capable system like Macs and Windows. Now it needs to find its own look. Too many distros out there are trying to be a perfect clone of Windows XP; if I want XP, I know where to find it. Get Linux over its insecurity complex and have it make up its own “look and feel” already!
All the hardware is supported - except mine. Can I get this digital camera working? 800 drivers for digital cameras - nope mine isn’t on the list. What about this wireless card? Dozens of brands supported - whoops, I bought the wrong one! I’m tired of playing hardware bingo - either I’m very unlucky at it, or there’s still some big holes to fill.
Problems coming up to a desktop. At least detect good default settings for a monitor and video card, and then give me an easy way to fix the size and color depth if I need to. Many, many distros do this, so the ones that don’t and either haul off and boot me to a plaid striped letterbox screen or leave me at a console trying to guess what my monitor’s vertical refresh rate is are even guiltier by comparison. It’s all open source, so the distros that get it wrong can just borrow from the ones that get it right, right?
Inner-Linux flame wars. KDE vs. Gnome! Emacs vs. vi! Ubuntu vs. Mandriva! All of these are fought just as feverishly as if they…. cost money. Hey, you’re giving it all away for free, so who cares what anybody uses?
FOSS Purity. OK, I loaded a closed-source driver onto my system so my video card will work. Do I have to be nailed to a wall for it? Yes, I know open source is the One True Way - and if all the drivers are open one day, that will make me very happy. In the mean time, I care about what works first. Ditto the haggling over licenses - there’s forty of them, most of them differ in one or two details, and thinking about legal stuff gives the user side of me a headache.
Obsession over taking over from Windows. When is the year of Linux on the desktop? Who cares? Look, again, you’re giving it away for free, so if you take over 98% of Microsoft’s market share, you are ahead exactly how far?
Linux devotees are too serious. Because you can’t post a list like this and not have a bunch of them come flame you. Lighten up. Your system’s fine. We love you. You’re big enough now to take your beating along with the other platforms

Your ****ing stupid, not only its free and open source, hey no viruses, or at least u gotta be really dumb to fall for one. Get effing Ubuntu. Besides Wine is doing a great job at emulating CS. Everything is free is linux, just say yum install :) or apt-get

P.S. this is more of an opinion post, less argumentative since all of what i just said has been said.

saren
10-31-2007, 07:59 PM
Free linux or not, you still have to pay for applications!

dragonnas
10-31-2007, 08:46 PM
If you put a dollar amount on the time you spend finding random crap to make linux not fale, wouldn't it cost more than windows anyway?

Perma
11-01-2007, 10:58 AM
I must admit, Ubuntu is very neat. It's quite a comfortable operating system, not the scary command-line hell that I had expected. Everything is so easy to install, and everything I've tried with Wine has worked so far.

gamepin126
11-01-2007, 05:18 PM
Free linux or not, you still have to pay for applications!

:lol:

n0.obAtroN
11-01-2007, 05:37 PM
Free linux or not, you still have to pay for applications!

What applications are these?


If you put a dollar amount on the time you spend finding random crap to make linux not fale, wouldn't it cost more than windows anyway?

The entire point of ubuntu: Philosophy | Ubuntu (http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/philosophy)


13,958 games that noone's ever heard of. Where's Halo, bitch?

Halo? Where is it? I dunno, maybe becuase its made by microsoft, and why would microsoft want to port their games to a opposing operation system? By the way: it runs fine under Cedega. Cant find anything else to bash on linux for except a single game? lol

deathknot
11-04-2007, 05:05 AM
I must admit, Ubuntu is very neat. It's quite a comfortable operating system, not the scary command-line hell that I had expected. Everything is so easy to install, and everything I've tried with Wine has worked so far.

If you get comfortable with bash then you find the windows command line is a piece of crap in comparison to a Linux shell.

Zhuinden
11-04-2007, 12:37 PM
I miss the good old not-lagging xPilot... And I miss MOAGG...

Just because you haven't heard of a game it doesn't mean it sucks.

CrazyGerbilEater
11-10-2007, 09:15 PM
Just because you haven't heard of a game it doesn't mean it sucks.

true, but it does give it a good chance of sucking

Dyndrilliac
01-02-2008, 09:29 AM
#4. Open source developers dont have to factor in the buisness Sh*t. They dont have deadlines, so they take their time and make the code work very well. They have to use the application, so again they make it work well. They dont have to consider in the costs. Microsoft has to say "Will it cost more money to fix it, or to just leave it". By the way, most of the time it is: "just leave it".You obviously never worked in a software developement lab. Microsoft is infamous for going out of their way to factor in backwards compatibility. The problem lies not with the OS Programmers but with the Application Programmers. They intentionally use crude and awkward schema to work around complex system operations. When those operations are altered and the program no longer functions because of it, on Linux or Macs it's the responsibility of the software developers to fix it. On Windows however, efforts are taken to add environents into the release build to emulate the previous system in which the software was intended to run. These "compatibility modes" are process based and do not affect other running processes, and can be accessed in the programs context-based properties menu.


#5. FREE. FREE. FREE. FREE. FREE.Warez, warez, warez. Anything can be obtained for free, it simply depends on whether your moral fiber stands in your way. Besides, most new PC's come with Vista Home Premium for free as a gift just for buying the computer anyway.


#6. Extremely customizable. Extreme Eye Candy. Check out this: YouTube - Compiz Fusion: A Quick Demonstration (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4Fbk52Mk1w)With the advent of Windows 2000 and XP it became possible and even widespread for people to write their own replacements for Windows components, most notably the Explorer shell/file-manager. Nowadays we also have a variety of options to choose from, including a clone of the Fluxbox shell which for a long time was only available on Linux.


#7. Runs on ANYTHING. Hell, they got linux for the psp, ipod, ps2, ps3, gamecube, PDA's, etc. If you have something that linux cant support, ask yourself this question "Is that a potatoe chip, or a processor chip?"Windows and Linux are both written to run based on the Intel IX86 processor architecture. The only thing stopping windows from running on any of those machines is that Windows has a lot of proprietary components and since noone does spreadsheets on their iPod it wasn't seen as a savvy business venture for Microsofts R&D department.


#8. Extremely fast and portable. The happy spot for Windows Vista is 4 gigs of ram and a 2.4+ GHz dual core processor and a 256 mb graphics card. Now that is a pretty hefty computer, a mighty expensive on too. That is what you have to buy to be able to get the basic "Aero Effects" like transparent windows. With linux I can get transparency, burning windows, 3D desktop, and a sh*tload more to run on a 1.8 GHz single core + 512 mb of ram + 64 mb graphics card. I dunno about you, but thats a hell of a difference to me.Most of the hardware need isn't for Windows itself (the highest Vista ever gets as far as resource usage goes with all it's settings maxed is a tenth of my processor and like 30% of my RAM). DirectX10 is a beast, and the beast is hungry. But you wouldn't know what with *nix being all about the OpenGL.


#9. No applications. Well lets just say this: There are 159,750 open source projects on sourceforge.net alone. Yah, let me tell you, theres ABSOLUTELY NO SOFTWARE FOR LINUX.Most of which are webservers and clones/"bundle-packs" of existing software.


#10. Thanks to the wonderfull wine (Wine HQ (http://www.winehq.org/)) project linux can run almost ALL windows applications. You dont hear Microsoft boasting about windows being able to run mac or linux software.Unless you've been in a cave for the past year you should know that Macs now use the same processor architecture as PC's and can even run Windows as their default OS, and non-system dependent software is now cross-platform compatible between the two. Also, thanks to the API's that most *nix apps use being ported to Windows those apps now Windows versions.


#11. Games? Wheres the Games? here dumbass:
First Person Shooter:
--> Nexuiz: Nexuiz (http://alientrap.org/nexuiz/)
--> Cube 1/Sauerbraten (Cube 2): Cube Engine Games (http://cubeengine.com/)
--> Open Alien Arena 2007: CodeRED - Alien Arena (http://cor.planetquake.gamespy.com/arena/)
--> Tremulous: T R E M U L O U S :: NEWS (http://www.tremulous.net/)

Real Time Strategy
--> Stargus: stargus.sf.net
--> Stratagus/BOS Wars: Bos Wars (http://www.boswars.org/)
--> Glest: Glest, A free 3d RTS (real time strategy) project, Proyecto libre de estrategia en tiempo real (RTS) :. (http://www.glest.org/)
--> Warzone2100: Welcome to wz2100.net | Warzone 2100 Resurrection Project (http://wz2100.net/)
Those are just the few I could find in 5 minutes. There are a total of 13,958 open source games on sourceforge.net alone.Never heard of any of those. Maybe you should use examples that people have actually heard of, like Quake and UT, famous for being two games that were designed to run in OpenGL.

#12. Secure. over 70% of the US Government pc's run linux. Why? becuase its secure. SELinux (Security-Enhanced Linux (http://www.nsa.gov/selinux/)) is a modified kernal (which most distros have now) To make it extremely secure. It was made by the NSA, National Security Agency.


#13. Ever got a virus? hell, I get them all the time. Uttorrent, Limewire, and hacks that have been hacked. In the year 2000 there were over 50,000 known and ACTIVE viruses for Microsoft Windows. Linux: 15 non-active viruses. In 2005 there were a reported 103,000 viruses for windows, linux: a total of 52. Ever tried coding a virus for linux? If you ever do (which I have), within the first day you will be saying this: "Damn. F*ck this. Too damn secure and to hard to code a virus for it, I give up"Virii and other malware are the sole responsibility of the operator. The only reason Linux has less virii and other such things is because less are designed for the environment, primarily because the amount of people that use the OS pales in comparison to Windows and therefore the choice is natural to those wishing to cause discord and chaos.

c4tAc0mB
01-02-2008, 12:17 PM
lol

n0.obAtroN
01-02-2008, 12:29 PM
"Microsoft is infamous for going out of their way to factor in backwards compatibility."

Really? how about explaining to use why microsoft rushes the work, does a sh*tty job, just to save money? Which incedently dropped their net worth about 20% since the release of the *rushed* vista.



"With the advent of Windows 2000 and XP it became possible and even widespread for people to write their own replacements for Windows components, most notably the Explorer shell/file-manager."

Can *any* of this run on a 400 mhz processor with 16 mb of graphics ram and still maintian the performance and visual effects? no, it cant.



"The only thing stopping windows from running on any of those machines is that Windows has a lot of proprietary components and since noone does spreadsheets on their iPod it wasn't seen as a savvy business venture for Microsofts R&D department."

Bulsh*t. Microsoft attempted to make a "mini" edition of windows but failed when they released the command line was dependent on having the GUI running, which is absolutely pathetic.

Not to mention the fact that microsoft is calculating in the buisness sh*t again, which you have previously said doesnt get factored in....



"Most of the hardware need isn't for Windows itself (the highest Vista ever gets as far as resource usage goes with all it's settings maxed is a tenth of my processor and like 30% of my RAM)."

I have 4 gigs of ram on my home computer, I installed a *bare* instalation of windows visto home edition and upon reboot it soaked up 3.5 gigs of my ram. Lemme tell you, windows is the most effecient beast EVER!!!



"Most of which are webservers and clones/"bundle-packs" of existing software."

Really? could have fooled me and the other 6.5 million people coding these applications.......



"Never heard of any of those."

just shows how n00by you are, and everyone knows about Quake, why mention it?



"Unless you've been in a cave for the past year you should know that Macs now use the same processor architecture as PC's and can even run Windows as their default OS"

What in the hell does this have to do with macs? Linux can run old style mac apps, apps from ALL versions of windows. So tell me, where do you see microsoft boasting about their wonderfull XP emulator, or their abbility to run linux applications?



"Virii and other malware are the sole responsibility of the operator. The only reason Linux has less virii and other such things is because less are designed for the environment, primarily because the amount of people that use the OS pales in comparison to Windows and therefore the choice is natural to those wishing to cause discord and chaos"

Could have fooled me. Almost all major corporations (except microsoft) use a unix based system and/or a SELinux kernal for their servers. Hmmm..... Now let me do the math... Big corporation has big money..... big money = good target. And since most of these "good" targets are unix based machines, why is there only 52 virii? all of which are inactive I might mention.

Most linux distros support hard drive encryption as an option for the installer, including swap drive encryption. The user/file management system is far superior to that of windows, seeing as there is a 'Super User" and how linux treats all devices like files. Ever tried to crack a password on a unix bassed system? I put a 7 character password in for a user, and it took 3 weeks of constant un-interupted brute force attacks to get 4 of those characters out of the encrypted password archive. With a windows machine, it took me about 10 minutes to reset the password, and about 15 minutes to crack it.

So, if you where a theif and stole a linux pc you would have too:
1. crack the AES-Twofish-Serpent encryption of the hard drive which is virtually impossible
2. get passed the almost uncrackeable password management system
3. get super user privilages, which is also almost impossible to do w/o the password
4. have fun with bank account numbers etc... Like they would ever make it past stage 1...........

If you stole a windows pc:
1. boot into a rescue CD and reset the password
2. have fun w/ bank account numbers etc......... like that was hard........

All-in-All, Linux is the most secure, has the best visual effects, runs all types of software, and can do it all out-of-the-box on ANY machine

Perma
01-02-2008, 01:49 PM
Everything in Dyndrilliac's post was absolutely correct. I'm a fan of open source software and I think the various Linux distros are notable ventures, but the world is run on Windows whether you like it or not.

Also, I'd just like to add that any argument about "Windows Vista is a resource hog, blah blah blah" is pretty much a moot point. Windows Vista is a next-generation operating system, and you shouldn't try to run it on sub-par hardware. Not sure what you're doing wrong, but the Ultimate edition runs smooth as butter on only 2GB of RAM and 3.4 GHz Pentium 4.

You can pick up a computer better than that for $900 at your local Staples.

Dyndrilliac
01-02-2008, 03:43 PM
Really? how about explaining to use why microsoft rushes the work, does a sh*tty job, just to save money? Which incedently dropped their net worth about 20% since the release of the *rushed* vista.They spent 5 years developing Vista. How do you call that rushed? And I already explained why the issues you complained about happen. You happen to be talking to someone who remembers the days when Windows was the only real 32-bit OS to speak of and had to emulate a 16-bit environment to utilize most software.


Not to mention the fact that microsoft is calculating in the buisness sh*t again, which you have previously said doesnt get factored in....Quote me where I said Microsoft doesn't factor money into their business decisions, dreg. You will be hard pressed to do so, let me assure you.


What in the hell does this have to do with macs? Linux can run old style mac apps, apps from ALL versions of windows. So tell me, where do you see microsoft boasting about their wonderfull XP emulator, or their abbility to run linux applications?Idiot. Pay close attention, as I would be most dissapointed if your precious attention span were to waver. This is where you claim Windows can't run Linux/Mac software.
#10. Thanks to the wonderfull wine (Wine HQ (http://www.winehq.org/)) project linux can run almost ALL windows applications. You dont hear Microsoft boasting about windows being able to run mac or linux software.Still with me so far? Now, Windows and Macs run the same architecture software. That means that it would be relatively simple to port the system dependent API's and voila, Mac software running on a PC. And lets not forget that Linux and Windows already run on the same architecture. I'm sure you have gone by unaware, what with you living in your linux hole, but several Linux based API's have already been ported over the past half a decade, making the apps that require those API's functional. Pwned.




Could have fooled me. Almost all major corporations (except microsoft) use a unix based system and/or a SELinux kernal for their servers. Hmmm..... Now let me do the math... Big corporation has big money..... big money = good target. And since most of these "good" targets are unix based machines, why is there only 52 virii? all of which are inactive I might mention.The server may be a Unix system, but the hundreds of computers that every employee aside from the Systems admin run a Windows PC, guarenteed. Now, a person writing a virus isn't going to waste his time just to infect 1 systems admin over the countless PC's where all the work is actually done. Maybe you should spend some time in the real world before you start spouting things you know nothing about.


Most linux distros support hard drive encryption as an option for the installer, including swap drive encryption. The user/file management system is far superior to that of windows, seeing as there is a 'Super User" and how linux treats all devices like files. Ever tried to crack a password on a unix bassed system? I put a 7 character password in for a user, and it took 3 weeks of constant un-interupted brute force attacks to get 4 of those characters out of the encrypted password archive. With a windows machine, it took me about 10 minutes to reset the password, and about 15 minutes to crack it.

So, if you where a theif and stole a linux pc you would have too:
1. crack the AES-Twofish-Serpent encryption of the hard drive which is virtually impossible
2. get passed the almost uncrackeable password management system
3. get super user privilages, which is also almost impossible to do w/o the password
4. have fun with bank account numbers etc... Like they would ever make it past stage 1...........

If you stole a windows pc:
1. boot into a rescue CD and reset the password
2. have fun w/ bank account numbers etc......... like that was hard........Clearly you've never heard of biometrics. Nowadays when people have computers that are so important that someone might actually just jack the ****ing computer itself, they install thumbprint authentication or they use the Iris of the eye. Then, they can't use it without the right authentication or without breaking it apart (which causes it to cease functioning anyway).

n0.obAtroN
01-04-2008, 03:33 PM
They spent 5 years developing Vista. How do you call that rushed? And I already explained why the issues you complained about happen. You happen to be talking to someone who remembers the days when Windows was the only real 32-bit OS to speak of and had to emulate a 16-bit environment to utilize most software.

I wonder why the release date was delayed so many times......


Quote me where I said Microsoft doesn't factor money into their business decisions, dreg. You will be hard pressed to do so, let me assure you.

Gladly, here:
it wasn't seen as a savvy business venture for Microsofts R&D department. and
Microsoft is infamous for going out of their way If micro$*t went outa their way why is it they only fix the major bugs and/or security risks? Why dont they provide complete technical support for all their software (for free). Why dont they offer money back guaranteed and waranties on their product? Why is it vista doesnt have a 3D desktop cube? Why is it that buisnesses make money of off offering services on Windows machines, when if microsoft went out of their way to *not* provide these services.

Dumbass


Idiot. Pay close attention, as I would be most dissapointed if your precious attention span were to waver. This is where you claim Windows can't run Linux/Mac software.

How about providing me with some screenshots of vista running some games designed for XP or before, such as: Stronghold 2, Oblivion, Baldur's Gate II, BF2142, doom 3, etc?

Here is a quote from a Vista/Game review:
Besides the occasional crash, the most common reports appear to be games whose animation speed, measured in frames per second, suffers under Vista.

Notice it says crash, and "suffers".

Here is some quotes from Vista Gamers:


We kept encountering a disk not found error while trying to launch the game. Patching and troubleshooting didn't help.


However cursor ghosting issues, massive frame rate slowdowns, and extensive rendering problems ruined the playing experience.


I can't get oblivion to work when I click on it it says Nixadapterdesc::getdevicecaps()failed Can someone tell me how I can fix it? and it says that wow needs directx 9 but it isn't compatible with vista....-.-


H i all i have just been looking at the games that are vista compatible and i couldn't help notice that it says that RISE OF NATIONS is not compatible it says on here that the game loads up, shows the introductory video, but then crashes back to the desktop i have a NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GTX XXX Edition 768MB gDDR3 graphics card installed so anyway i went and bought windows vista ultimate today and i installed it and i then installed RISE OF NATIONS and i ran the game and it worked fine the only problem is that the sound on the game is jumpy and i checked my sound card and it was all working correctly as i had music playing so the game oes work for me on windows vista ultimate and therefore must work with windows vista afterall i can pove what i am saying if you want evidence of the game working on windows vista

There you have it, from someone other than me


And lets not forget that Linux and Windows already run on the same architecture.

Linux runs on every architechture, and you say I have a short attention span?


The server may be a Unix system, but the hundreds of computers that every employee aside from the Systems admin run a Windows PC, guarenteed. Now, a person writing a virus isn't going to waste his time just to infect 1 systems admin over the countless PC's where all the work is actually done. Maybe you should spend some time in the real world before you start spouting things you know nothing about.

I only have one thing to say to that, this:
With the advent of Windows 2000 and XP it became possible and even widespread for people to write their own replacements for Windows components, most notably the Explorer shell/file-manager.

Just like the virii replacing all the system files eh?


Clearly you've never heard of biometrics. Nowadays when people have computers that are so important that someone might actually just jack the ****ing computer itself, they install thumbprint authentication or they use the Iris of the eye. Then, they can't use it without the right authentication or without breaking it apart (which causes it to cease functioning anyway).

Clearly you have never been to a airport, school, or any public place for that matter. Do you just sit here waiting for me to post?

Please do notice how everything you posted requires money and comes separate. You buy Windows, then the stuff(s) to make it look good, then your antivirus solution, then your firewall, then your office suit, then your game(s), then your data protection tool, then your scanning device, then any other sh*t you can think of that windows is missing.

Linux, it all comes built in and can do it on a 400mhz processor. Pwned.


Linux distros are notable ventures, but the world is run on Windows whether you like it or not.

No, its not. Only in america where your rich dady can buy you all want is it used. Windows *doesnt* happen to be the most common OS in the world.

I will believe all you say, that windows is the best, that I was wrong, etc if you can provide me with the solution to ALL these questions/problems. If you cannot, do not post here again.

=
================================================== =============
#1. Can the latest microsoft software run on a 400mhz cpu, with a 6 gig drive and a 16 mb graphics card?

#2. Can it support ALL types of hardware and run on virtually any machine?

#3. How much does the typical computer cost by the time you install the security software, data protection software, office suits, etc?

#4. Is it free?

#5. Does speech recognition come for free on ALL windows packages?

#6. Does windows have a kernal enhanced by the National Security Assosiation?

#7. Does it have a GUI installer with a step-by-step wizard to walk the user through installing it w/ speech recognition, hard drive encryption, optional applications, users, updates, custom web installes, and automatic driver install?

#8. Does windows have a hardware detection system w/ support for all hardware pre-installed?

#9. is it open source?

#10. Does windows have the extra graphic effects, such as transparent windows, 3D desktop, close/open animations, wobbly windows, desktop plane, GUI plugins to add extra effects, composite manager, and does all this work out of the box on a 16 mb graphics card?

#11. What is microsofts mission statement? DO they beleive in freedom as open source does? Do they share their knowlegde and willingly donate to organizations?

#12. Have you *ever* been to school, and watched a 10 year old compromise the networks security?

#13. How many exploits/bugs currently have not been patched by microsoft?

#14. Will there be enough room for me to install windows and all my applications on a 6 gig hard drive?
=
================================================== ===========

I highly doubt windows can do any of these, even with help from other applications

Perma
01-04-2008, 07:19 PM
First of all, who the **** are you to tell me not to post?

Look, your argument is all well and good. However, this is the year 2008. Very few people are still running 400 MHz processors. An off-the-shelf computer for under $1000 can run Windows Vista with ease. Yes, Linux can be easily ported to different mediums. What purpose does that serve in your argument? It doesn't make it at all a better operating system.


No, its not. Only in america where your rich dady can buy you all want is it used. Windows *doesnt* happen to be the most common OS in the world.

That's the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Windows is the most commonly ran operating system in the world. Period. Take a look at the operating system statistics of any major website - hell, even this website. Or take a look at Microsoft's market share.


#1. Can the latest microsoft software run on a 400mhz cpu, with a 6 gig drive and a 16 mb graphics card?

No, it can't. Because Microsoft's software is taking full advantage of today's hardware advances. Not only that, but even if it could - what the **** else could you possibly do on a piece of ass computer like that?


#2. Can it support ALL types of hardware and run on virtually any machine?

I have yet to see a piece of hardware that was unsupported by Windows.


#3. How much does the typical computer cost by the time you install the security software, data protection software, office suits, etc?

About $1000 if you don't want to be too fancy about it. Possibly less if you can put the computer together yourself and don't buy a corporate brand name product. Computers are extremely cheap these days.


#4. Is it free?

Are cellphones? Is the computer? Cars? Not everything in life is free. Why should hundreds - if not thousands - of developers put countless hours into something and not get paid? Is Microsoft just going to pay those programmers their hourly wages and then give out the operating system for free? Don't be retarded.


#5. Does speech recognition come for free on ALL windows packages?

No. However, I don't recall it being in Linux from the beginning either. Besides, voice recognition software has existed for a hell of a long time for Windows, it just didn't ship with the operating system because it wasn't developed by Microsoft.


#6. Does windows have a kernal enhanced by the National Security Assosiation?

Oh yay. More government involvement in developing operating system. That's the last thing anyone needs, buddy.


#7. Does it have a GUI installer with a step-by-step wizard to walk the user through installing it w/ speech recognition, hard drive encryption, optional applications, users, updates, custom web installes, and automatic driver install?

It's almost like you've never installed Windows Vista before. Now, let's get this straight, I'm not trying to sell that operating system but - it has all those things you mentioned.



#8. Does windows have a hardware detection system w/ support for all hardware pre-installed?

Like I said, Windows has yet to encounter hardware that it couldn't support in my experience. However, I had to use third-party drivers when I installed Ubuntu on my laptop because there was no pre-installed open source driver for my network card. So, I'm sorry, but Linux has many hardware incompatibilities.


#9. is it open source?

See the above comment about people needing to make a living.


#10. Does windows have the extra graphic effects, such as transparent windows, 3D desktop, close/open animations, wobbly windows, desktop plane, GUI plugins to add extra effects, composite manager, and does all this work out of the box on a 16 mb graphics card?

Well, there are neat visuals in Windows. And there are neater still ones in Linux. I'm not sure about you, though, but I don't sit down at my computer to watch the windows wabble or draw fire on my desktop.


#11. What is microsofts mission statement? DO they beleive in freedom as open source does? Do they share their knowlegde and willingly donate to organizations?

Uh...wow. Microsoft has gone out of their way to make software development for their platform easy, fun, and free. All of their development suites are downloadable for free from their website.


#12. Have you *ever* been to school, and watched a 10 year old compromise the networks security?

That's like saying it's the plane's fault for crashing if you let a 10-year-old fly. It isn't, it's the pilot's fault. Where the hell were they? If someone that young can pull that off, it speaks poorly for the network administrators. Anyone with a brain stem would be able to run a tight, secure network on Windows.

Which reminds me - how many schools have you gone to that ran entirely Linux machines? I'd bet not many, if any at all.


#13. How many exploits/bugs currently have not been patched by microsoft?

Critical ones? Few, if any.


#14. Will there be enough room for me to install windows and all my applications on a 6 gig hard drive?

Again, we've discussed this. Get a better machine. Also, I'm sorry, but a 6GB drive can't even hold World of Warcraft or any of today's games. So the answer is no, Windows can't. And neither can Linux.

Please go have some experience with Windows before posting again.

Pete_Zahut
01-04-2008, 10:17 PM
You dont have to argue with this idiot, let him live in his own perfect, Microsoft-free world.

n0.obAtroN
01-04-2008, 11:01 PM
First of all, who the **** are you to tell me not to post? I wasnt reffering to you, but dyndriliac or wotnot.


Look, your argument is all well and good. However, this is the year 2008. Very few people are still running 400 MHz processors. An off-the-shelf computer for under $1000 can run Windows Vista with ease. Yes, Linux can be easily ported to different mediums. What purpose does that serve in your argument? It doesn't make it at all a better operating system.

Just cuz your a lazy ass american whose dady buys his bitchin son whatever he wants....


That's the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Windows is the most commonly ran operating system in the world. Period. Take a look at the operating system statistics of any major website - hell, even this website. Or take a look at Microsoft's market share.

Really? Stuck in your little dadys world again? Take a look around, do a goolge search if you must. The most comman OS actually is a unix based one from Japan.


No, it can't. Because Microsoft's software is taking full advantage of today's hardware advances. Not only that, but even if it could - what the **** else could you possibly do on a piece of ass computer like that?

Getting a little snoby are we? Go into the middle of the desert with all your money, an see what good it does you then pretty boy.
The funny thing is, you say its taking advantage of hardware advances, when linux can do the same thing on a 400mhz cpu? More like using resources that it can but doesnt have too.


About $1000 if you don't want to be too fancy about it. Possibly less if you can put the computer together yourself and don't buy a corporate brand name product. Computers are extremely cheap these days.

Do you know what you could do with a 100$ linux pc? Ah hell, I cant even imagine.


Are cellphones? Is the computer? Cars? Not everything in life is free. Why should hundreds - if not thousands - of developers put countless hours into something and not get paid? Is Microsoft just going to pay those programmers their hourly wages and then give out the operating system for free? Don't be retarded.

Hmm. Interesting theory. Was the world free? Was your body free? The most important things in life are, well, FREE! And if you dont beleive in a free community, you can move to china and join your communist buddies with all the 1000$ pcs you want.


No. However, I don't recall it being in Linux from the beginning either. Besides, voice recognition software has existed for a hell of a long time for Windows, it just didn't ship with the operating system because it wasn't developed by Microsoft.

Most linux distros come with that pre installed and setup for free. You have to spend a little extra of your dadys $$ to get that in windows.


Oh yay. More government involvement in developing operating system. That's the last thing anyone needs, buddy.

Hell yah, its a hell of a lot better than you, or obviously microsoft could do.


It's almost like you've never installed Windows Vista before. Now, let's get this straight, I'm not trying to sell that operating system but - it has all those things you mentioned.

It installs custom applications from the web upon your request as it installs? It has AES-Twofish-Serpent HD encryption w/ encrypted swap built into the installer?


Like I said, Windows has yet to encounter hardware that it couldn't support in my experience. However, I had to use third-party drivers when I installed Ubuntu on my laptop because there was no pre-installed open source driver for my network card. So, I'm sorry, but Linux has many hardware incompatibilities.

Really? So I can put it in my PS3 and it will work? And on the subjet of the ubuntu and your drivers, how about using a web installer that downloads those non-open source drivers for you? noob.


See the above comment about people needing to make a living.

Really? All those open source guys seem to make a living to me........


Uh...wow. Microsoft has gone out of their way to make software development for their platform easy, fun, and free. All of their development suites are downloadable for free from their website.

You completely avoided the question. Tell me, what is their mission statement, and do they donate to your education (as in code), and do they donate to organizations?


That's like saying it's the plane's fault for crashing if you let a 10-year-old fly. It isn't, it's the pilot's fault. Where the hell were they? If someone that young can pull that off, it speaks poorly for the network administrators. Anyone with a brain stem would be able to run a tight, secure network on Windows.

Ahh man, you got it all wrong. The plane doesnt exist. Its a rusted peice of sh*t sitting in a junk yard.


Critical ones? Few, if any.

Maybe you should check up on that before you post.


Again, we've discussed this. Get a better machine. Also, I'm sorry, but a 6GB drive can't even hold World of Warcraft or any of today's games. So the answer is no, Windows can't. And neither can Linux.

Linux cant either? wow, my 512 mb palm pilot must have a ton of internal memory I didnt know about!!!!!


Please go have some experience with Windows before posting again.
Ohh, I have, and thats why I hate it so much


w00t? dont have a answer to my simple questions? You can jump through microsofts hoops all you want......

Perma
01-04-2008, 11:15 PM
I answered all of your questions. Nothing else to contribute to this thread?

YonderKnight
01-04-2008, 11:26 PM
obatron, you're a f*cking idiot.

The latest and greatest linux distros run on PC's with 400mhz CPUs? I installed ubuntu on my 1.8ghz dell with 256mb RAM and I couldn't stand how f*cking slow it went, I had to to switch back to XP.

You're comparing linux distros designed to run on CPU's that can fit in calculators to a modern PC's operating system. Hey, news flash, windows has different versions too. Ever heard of windows mobile? You can run that on a cell phone with less than 400mhz.

I'm sure that anyone who knows enough about linux to use it is using it already. All you're doing now is windows bashing. And like many people have said so far, windows is a hell of an OS, so leave it alone.

n0.obAtroN
01-04-2008, 11:31 PM
obatron, you're a f*cking idiot.

Hell yah.


The latest and greatest linux distros run on PC's with 400mhz CPUs? I installed ubuntu on my 1.8ghz dell with 256mb RAM and I couldn't stand how f*cking slow it went, I had to to switch back to XP.

Why is it everyone uses ubuntu? Good hell, use slax or something. Its no suprise ubuntu ran slow on that pc with you setting it up.


You're comparing linux distros designed to run on CPU's that can fit in calculators to a modern PC's operating system. Hey, news flash, windows has different versions too. Ever heard of windows mobile? You can run that on a cell phone with less than 400mhz.

The same thing I use on this pc I am typing with, runs on my palm pilot. Could have fooled me.


I'm sure that anyone who knows enough about linux to use it is using it already. All you're doing now is windows bashing. And like many people have said so far, windows is a hell of an OS, so leave it alone.

If its that great why do you even give a sh*t what I post?

Please, tell me something linux cant do that windows can.

YonderKnight
01-04-2008, 11:40 PM
Its no suprise ubuntu ran slow on that pc with you setting it up.

Oh, sorry. I thought linux was designed so that any n00b can set it up properly with an easy to use graphical interface! That's only what you said about 10 times. Well guess what. I don't want to spend hours tweaking my PC so it'll run half-decently.


If its that great why do you even give a sh*t what I post?

Because your idiocy is pissing me and everyone else off. You know really what sucks? When there's something as good as linux and some idiot is trying to represent it by irritating the sh*t out of everyone.

Perma
01-04-2008, 11:42 PM
Please, tell me something linux cant do that windows can.

Sure. Play a mainstream game without emulation software. Run Photoshop without emulation software. Run adequate game development software without emulation software.

It's funny how you bash Windows yet most Linux users completely depend on its emulation to run applications that are actually useful.

n0.obAtroN
01-04-2008, 11:45 PM
Because your idiocy is pissing me and everyone else off. You know really what sucks? When there's something as good as linux and some idiot is trying to represent it by irritating the sh*t out of everyone.

Thats right, enjoy it while you can. I get a good laugh out of each post, why dont you do the same?


Oh, sorry. I thought linux was designed so that any n00b can set it up properly with an easy to use graphical interface!

Depends on how much effort you want to put in, and if you are using the Default installer or not. I say your a n00b becuz you cant google two words "ubuntu slow", which by the way, pulls up the solution

P.S I am not forcing you to read this, you have "freedom" which you somehow dont like......

and Perma, the lack of the linux support is what hampers us the most. The fact that blizzard choosed not to port Starcraft to linux, is hardly, if at all, "linux's" fault.

Ever used GIMP or Blender, the two togethor is 10X of what photoshop will ever be, sorry.

One more thing: why has a google search of "vista games" pulled up so many "n00bz" that are having troubles playing their "easy to install games"?

Perma
01-04-2008, 11:51 PM
Yes. I have used GIMP, unfortunately. As a developer I can tell you it has absolutely nothing on Photoshop. I understand that games not being supported by Linux is the developers fault, but that's because there isn't enough of a market for it.

Which brings me back to my "the world is run on Windows" point.

n0.obAtroN
01-04-2008, 11:57 PM
Games and comman applications tend to be on windows more often then linux, yes, but you still cant deny the fact that since the release of vista, and novell going open source, that linux and the applications has grown tremendously. (aka compiz, dekslets, etc)

Please go do a google search for "gimp picture" or "blender" (which happen to be free)

Would you please make a picture as high a quality as this with your "adobe" stuff:

http://www.cyanureill.net/images/renders/lost_land.jpg

http://www.boffinms.com/~omega/waves.jpg

http://www.chocolatechipmm.com.au/tutorials/bmwz4/images/z4_29.jpg

gamepin126
01-05-2008, 12:20 AM
Adobe isn't CGI.

Perma
01-05-2008, 12:41 AM
Yeah, Photoshop is for imaging. If you want 3D rendering use Maya.

YonderKnight
01-05-2008, 12:45 AM
Get in a game of SC and show off your uber hax which can run on linux.

BD-ICY
01-05-2008, 07:19 AM
Okay...you think you need to hav e a rich daddy to buy a $1000 comp? Lawl your a dumbass. I paid for my $1800 laptop by WORKING AT A ****ING CARWASH. Maybe it costs alot to kids like you who are to lazy to get a job...but not to us who have jobs and can buy their own ****.

Degô
01-05-2008, 07:59 AM
Just cuz your a lazy ass american whose dady buys his bitchin son whatever he wants....

Perma is canadian, which is quite obvious if you but glance under his avatar


Getting a little snoby are we? Go into the middle of the desert with all your money, an see what good it does you then pretty boy.

And how exactly will linux help you in this particular situation?


Hmm. Interesting theory. Was the world free? Was your body free? The most important things in life are, well, FREE! And if you dont beleive in a free community, you can move to china and join your communist buddies with all the 1000$ pcs you want.

Do you even know what communism is? I mean, for god's sake, how can someone be so incredibly stupid?


You completely avoided the question. Tell me, what is their mission statement, and do they donate to your education (as in code), and do they donate to organizations?

"In 2000, Gates and his wife founded the charitable Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. The generosity and extensive philanthropy of David Rockefeller has been credited as a major influence. Bill Gates and his father have met with Rockefeller several times and have modeled their giving in part on the Rockefeller family's philanthropic focus, namely those global problems that are ignored by governments and other organizations.

The foundation's grants have provided funds for college scholarships for under-represented minorities, AIDS prevention, diseases prevalent in third world countries, and other causes. In 2000, the Gates Foundation endowed the University of Cambridge with $210 million for the Gates Cambridge Scholarships. The Foundation has also pledged over $7 billion to its various causes, including $1 billion to the United Negro College Fund. According to a 2004 Forbes magazine article, Gates gave away over $29 billion to charities from 2000 onwards. These donations are usually cited as sparking a substantial change in attitudes towards philanthropy among the very rich, with philanthropy becoming the norm"

Wikipedia moar?



Please, tell me something linux cant do that windows can.

Run an .EXE

Dyndrilliac
01-05-2008, 10:30 AM
I wonder why the release date was delayed so many times......The release data was delayed numerous times because it was decided that old obsolete legacy components were to be decomissioned and rewritten from scratch. I posted an in-depth look on what exactly was done to Vista during it'/s developement. Search for it if you're so inclined.


If micro$*t went outa their way why is it they only fix the major bugs and/or security risks? Why dont they provide complete technical support for all their software (for free). Why dont they offer money back guaranteed and waranties on their product? Why is it vista doesnt have a 3D desktop cube? Why is it that buisnesses make money of off offering services on Windows machines, when if microsoft went out of their way to *not* provide these services.First and foremost, neither of your quotes have me saying "Microsoft does not factor money into their business decisions.", and as a matter of fact, your first quote actually hurts your argument. Not to mention, you only posted fragments of my statements. It's satisfying to know that you are so readily willing to take my words out of context for a desperate bid to be viewed as justified. And secondly, although Microsoft has and will continue to go out of their way in the name of customer service, you need to understand that Microsoft is a company with the clear intention of making money. Don't return until you've somehow fit this concept in your narrow mind. If this seems a justifiiable reason for being an overzealous fanboy then do it elsewhere, this forum doesn't need your drama about Linux or anything else for that matter. "Dumbass."

Can't provide screenshots of games, I don't have, but I can provide a screenshot of Fable being played on Vista, which was out before Vista's release. As for your comment regarding Virii replacing system files, only idiots get a virus. Pure and simple. That holds true for all systems, and you would do well to remember it.


Clearly you have never been to a airport, school, or any public place for that matter. Do you just sit here waiting for me to post?What does that have to do with the so-called superiority of Linux? Stay on topic if you're going to waste our time, fool.


Please do notice how everything you posted requires money and comes separate. You buy Windows, then the stuff(s) to make it look good, then your antivirus solution, then your firewall, then your office suit, then your game(s), then your data protection tool, then your scanning device, then any other sh*t you can think of that windows is missing.

Linux, it all comes built in and can do it on a 400mhz processor. Pwned.I have everything I need, and the only things I actually paid for were the PC itself and the peripherals (Ipod, etc). Everything else was either already there, free, or obtained through non-legal means. Furthermore, regardless of what spartan configuration that you can run Linux on, you cannot do certain things without the proper hardware. I would like to see a sub-par system try to play anything with real entertainment value with high-quality graphics.


I will believe all you say, that windows is the best, that I was wrong, etc if you can provide me with the solution to ALL these questions/problems. If you cannot, do not post here again.I never said "Windows is the best", or "Linux sucks", I was simply refuting the absurd claims made by you. The difference between you and I is that I am not a fanboy, and don't get butthurt when some mean e-bully starts attacking my preferred OS.


#1. Can the latest microsoft software run on a 400mhz cpu, with a 6 gig drive and a 16 mb graphics card?Of course not. But then again, not many people are running computers from the paleolithic era.


#2. Can it support ALL types of hardware and run on virtually any machine?No, but it doesn't need to. Although, I did recently stumble on a modded version of Vista for the PSP.


#3. How much does the typical computer cost by the time you install the security software, data protection software, office suits, etc?About a thousand dollars.


#4. Is it free?Of course not. Not all people are destitute and require the charitable efforts of the authors of Linux.


#5. Does speech recognition come for free on ALL windows packages?No, and for the same reason as all the other 'no' responses - not everyone uses speech recognition and therefore it does not come standard in all variations.


#6. Does windows have a kernal enhanced by the National Security Assosiation?Ok, I seriously LOL'd. You don't honestly believe that Linux has somehow been "enhanced" by the US government, do you? I do feel sorry for your caretaker, probably has to listen to you ramble on about how the FBI stopped a hacker attack on your server box. Plus, I wouldn't want the NSA tapping into my computer anyway.


#7. Does it have a GUI installer with a step-by-step wizard to walk the user through installing it w/ speech recognition, hard drive encryption, optional applications, users, updates, custom web installes, and automatic driver install?Yes, though the wizards have to be ran seperately, as they alter a different area of the system.


#8. Does windows have a hardware detection system w/ support for all hardware pre-installed?Yes, all hardware installed on PC's that came with Vista will have their hardware automatically recognized and device drivers installed automatically.


#9. is it open source?Why bother asking? You and I both know it isn't


#10. Does windows have the extra graphic effects, such as transparent windows, 3D desktop, close/open animations, wobbly windows, desktop plane, GUI plugins to add extra effects, composite manager, and does all this work out of the box on a 16 mb graphics card?

#12. Have you *ever* been to school, and watched a 10 year old compromise the networks security?

#14. Will there be enough room for me to install windows and all my applications on a 6 gig hard drive?No, no, and no.


#13. How many exploits/bugs currently have not been patched by microsoft?I haven't expeerienced a single bug/exploit inherent in the OS since I bought my new PC a few months ago.

Pete_Zahut
01-05-2008, 11:10 AM
Really? Stuck in your little dadys world again? Take a look around, do a goolge search if you must. The most comman OS actually is a unix based one from Japan.
No.


Windows Vista (http://news.softpedia.com/news/Vista-the-Second-Most-Used-OS-Worldwide-Ahead-of-Tiger-and-Linux-61621.shtml#) is after just six months of availability, the second most used operating system worldwide, runner up to Windows XP, and ahead of Apple's Mac OS X Tiger and the various distributions of the open source platform Linux, according to statistics delivered by web analytics company OneStat. Released to businesses in November 2006, and to the general public in January 2007, Vista is advancing towards the dominant position on the operating system market, slowly eroding XP's share. Microsoft did applaud its latest operating system's performance (http://news.softpedia.com/news/Vista-the-Second-Most-Used-OS-Worldwide-Ahead-of-Tiger-and-Linux-61621.shtml#) in terms of sales, growing from 20 million sold licenses in the first month following the consumer launch to over 60 million shipped copies in half a year.

With the latest statistics over the usage of Windows (http://news.softpedia.com/news/Vista-the-Second-Most-Used-OS-Worldwide-Ahead-of-Tiger-and-Linux-61621.shtml#), Mac OS X and Linux, OneStat comes to confirm Microsoft's position illustrated as back as May. In mid May to be more specific, at the Windows Hardware Engineering Conference (WinHEC) 2007 in Los Angeles, Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates, revealed that Vista was meeting the company's expectations to become the standard version of the Windows operating system.

After the first 100 days on the market, Vista "had nearly 40 million copies sold, and so that's twice as fast as the adoption of Windows XP, the last major release that we've had," Gates stated at the time, adding that "if you think about that, that says that in our first five weeks we've matched the entire installed base of any other provider of similar software."

At the Financial Analyst Meeting 2007 on July 26, Kevin Turner, Microsoft Chief Operating Officer seized the opportunity to downplay Apple's relevance using fresh Vista sales figures. Turner produced the 60 million copies of Windows Vista sold into the marketplace in the first half a year and added that "and you know by our math we eclipse the entire install base of Apple in the first five weeks that this product shipped."

OneStat statistics come now to support the claims of both Gates and Turner. Taking into consideration the data (http://news.softpedia.com/news/Vista-the-Second-Most-Used-OS-Worldwide-Ahead-of-Tiger-and-Linux-61621.shtml#) provided by the metrics company, Windows Vista currently accounts for a global usage share of 3.23%, more than enough to put it ahead of Mac OS X and Linux.

"Microsoft's Windows dominates the operating system market with a global usage share of 96.72 percent. In August 2006 the total global usage share of Microsoft's Windows was 96.97 percent. Microsoft's Windows Vista has a global usage of 3.23 percent. The leading operating system on the web is still Microsoft's Windows XP with a global usage share of 87.36 percent. The global usage share of Apple's Macintosh is 2.70 percent and the global usage share of Linux is 0.36 percent," OneStat revealed.
Read up, buddy.

Perma
01-05-2008, 11:53 AM
Just cuz your a lazy ass american whose dady buys his bitchin son whatever he wants....

Actually, I bought my very first computer for about $2000 by working for $8/hr at a grocery store when I was fifteen years old. I'm not sure if you've lived in a cave for the past decade, but that sort of money is not hard to come by even with a mediocre job.

In fact I've bought three different computers myself. Isn't that incredible? And I also don't live with my parents. I'm sorry, but your personal attack has failed. And I suggest you keep that sort of thing to the flame board.


Hmm. Interesting theory. Was the world free? Was your body free? The most important things in life are, well, FREE! And if you dont beleive in a free community, you can move to china and join your communist buddies with all the 1000$ pcs you want.

No, actually, the world was not free. All the sweet little luxuries you enjoy cost money. Your home, and everything you do, and everything that was done to create the world you know - has cost money. If you want a free world, go live in a desert somewhere and run Linux on solar power.

As for everything else you've mentioned so far, it's all been countered quite effectively. You seem to just be spouting Linux fanboy garbage without any fact to back it up, which a number of posted articles have proven. From an entertainment or development standpoint, Linux can not compare to Windows.

Yes, Linux is "secure". I believe the term is "security by obscurity". If Linux were the most popular operating system in the world, you can be damn sure there would be hordes of exploited bugs. People just don't care.

n0.obAtroN
01-08-2008, 03:05 PM
Get in a game of SC and show off your uber hax which can run on linux.
Everyday

Do you even know what communism is? I mean, for god's sake, how can someone be so incredibly stupid?
Do you know what comunism is? Its the opposite of freedom dumbass.

In 2000, Gates and his wife founded the charitable Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation
And this cost what, .000000000001% of his anual income?

Run an .EXE
It can run a EXE just fine

What does that have to do with the so-called superiority of Linux? Stay on topic if you're going to waste our time, fool.
It has everything to do with linux dipsh*t. You have never been to a school, airport, or other place that where you might have a laptop lost, or stolen. With windows all you do is boot of a live cd and bang, you got all their sh*t. Linux, with its HD encryption, solves that problem.


I would like to see a sub-par system try to play anything with real entertainment value with high-quality graphics.
You really are a noob arnt you? How about trying it to see if it works before posting?

I never said "Windows is the best", or "Linux sucks", I was simply refuting the absurd claims made by you.
Whats the point of this thread I might ask? Are you missing a chromozone?
And all these "absurd" claims I have made, are completely acurate. You never have used linux in-depth, or else you would be on my side, so how in the hell would you know?


No, but it doesn't need to
So why use up the the stuff if you dont need too? Linux can do anything (plus more) that vista can on a computer with a 5th of the resources. Vista uses the crap becuz it can, and no reason other than it was done sloppilly.

Of course not.
If its not free, then theres another thing linux has that windows dont.

No, and for the same reason as all the other 'no' responses - not everyone uses speech recognition and therefore it does not come standard in all variations.
Please do note that when installing a linux distro you choose which *free* applications you would like installed.
You dont have to install the software if you dont want to, but its always AVAILABLE in the event you would like to.

Yes, all hardware installed on PC's that came with Vista will have their hardware automatically recognized and device drivers installed automatically.
So I can plug it into a a PS3 and the hardware will be supported? I dont think so.

Why bother asking? You and I both know it isn't
To point out the fact of yet *another* thing windows lacks.

No, no, and no.
Even more things windows dont do.

Read up, buddy.
How bout you do some reading? google Itron pall.

I'm sorry, but your personal attack has failed.
Yah, lemme tell you, its on a webpage, its SOOOO personal.... dumbass, lol.

No, actually, the world was not free.
Who payed for it then?

All the sweet little luxuries you enjoy cost money
I dont live witht he luxuries, havnt you noticed? 400 mhz cpu, 25 kb/s from neibors network, sounds top of the line doest it? Just cuz your a spoiled bitch enjoying all the "luxuries" of money doesnt mean everyone does.

Yes, Linux is "secure". I believe the term is "security by obscurity".


Windows only suffers so many attacks because there are more Windows installations than Linux, therefore Linux would be just as vulnerable if it had as many installations
Open source is inherently less secure because malicious hackers can find flaws more easily
There are more security alerts for Linux than for Windows, therefore Linux is less secure than Windows
There is a longer time between the discovery of a flaw and a patch for the flaw with Linux than with Windows





Windows only suffers so many attacks because there are more Windows installations than Linux, therefore Linux would be just as vulnerable if it had as many installations
Open source is inherently less secure because malicious hackers can find flaws more easily
There are more security alerts for Linux than for Windows, therefore Linux is less secure than Windows
There is a longer time between the discovery of a flaw and a patch for the flaw with Linux than with Windows

The error behind axioms 3 and 4 is that they ignore the most important metrics for measuring the relative security of one operating system vs. another. As you will see in our section on Realistic Security and Severity Metrics, measuring security by a single metric (such as how long it takes between the discovery of a flaw and a patch release) produces meaningless results.

Finally, we also include a brief overview of relevant conceptual differences between Windows and Linux, to offer an insight into why Windows tends to be more vulnerable to attacks at both server and desktop, and why Linux is inherently more secure.


Perhaps the most oft-repeated myth regarding Windows vs. Linux security is the claim that Windows has more incidents of viruses, worms, Trojans and other problems because malicious hackers tend to confine their activities to breaking into the software with the largest installed base. This reasoning is applied to defend Windows and Windows applications. Windows dominates the desktop; therefore Windows and Windows applications are the focus of the most attacks, which is why you don't see viruses, worms and Trojans for Linux. While this may be true, at least in part, the intentional implication is not necessarily true: That Linux and Linux applications are no more secure than Windows and Windows applications, but Linux is simply too trifling a target to bother attacking.


The remaining popular myths regarding the relative security of Windows vs. Linux are flawed by the fact that they are based only on a single metric -- a single aspect of measuring security. This is true whether the data comes from actual research, anecdotal information or even urban myth.

One popular claim is that, "there are more security alerts for Linux than for Windows, and therefore Linux is less secure than Windows". Another is, "The average time that elapses between discovery of a flaw and when a patch for that flaw is released is greater for Linux than it is for Windows, and therefore Linux is less secure than Windows."

The latter is the most mysterious of all. It is an imponderable mystery how anyone can reach the conclusion that Microsoft's average response time between discovery of a flaw and releasing the fix for that flaw is superior to that of anycompeting operating system, let alone superior to Linux. Microsoft took seven months to fix one of its most serious security vulnerabilities (Microsoft Security Bulletin MS04-007 ASN.1 Vulnerability, eEye Digital Security publishes the delay in advisory AD20040210), and there are flaws Microsoft has openly stated it will neverrepair. The Microsoft Security Bulletin MS03-010 about the Denial Of Service vulnerability in Windows NT says this will never be repaired. More recently, Microsoft stated that it would not repair Internet Explorer vulnerabilities for any operating systems older than Windows XP. Statistically speaking, seven months between discovery and fix might not have an overly dramatic effect on the average response time if you can find enough samples of excellent response times to offset anomalies like this, assuming they are anomalies. But it only takes one case of "never" to upset the statistical average beyond recovery.


Critics of Linux are fond of saying that Linux is "old" technology. Ironically, one of the biggest problems with Windows is that it hasn't been able to escape its "old" legacy single-user design. Windows has long been hampered by its origin as a single-user system. Windows was originally designed to allow both users and applications free access to the entire system, which means anyone could tamper with a critical system program or file. It also means viruses, Trojans and other malware could tamper with any critical system program or file, because Windows did not isolate users or applications from these sensitive areas of the operating system.


A monolithic system is one where most features are integrated into a single unit. The antithesis of a monolithic system is one where features are separated out into distinct layers, each layer having limited access to the other layers.

While some of the shortcomings of Windows are due to its ties to its original single-user design, other shortcomings are the direct result of deliberate design decisions, such as its monolithic design (integrating too many features into the core of the operating system). Microsoft made the Netscape browser irrelevant by integrating Internet Explorer so tightly into its operating system that it is almost impossible not to use IE. Like it or not, you invoke Internet Explorer when you use the Windows help system, Outlook, and many other Microsoft and third-party applications. Granted, it is in the best business interest of Microsoft to make it difficult to use anything but Internet Explorer. Microsoft successfully makes competing products irrelevant by integrating more and more of the services they provide into its operating system. But this approach creates a monster of inextricably interdependent services (which is, by definition, a monolithic system).

Interdependencies like these have two unfortunate cascading side effects. First, in a monolithic system, every flaw in a piece of that system is exposed through all of the services and applications that depend on that piece of the system. When Microsoft integrated Internet Explorer into the operating system, Microsoft created a system where any flaw in Internet Explorer could expose your Windows desktop to risks that go far beyond what you do with your browser. A single flaw in Internet Explorer is therefore exposed in countless other applications, many of which may use Internet Explorer in a way that is not obvious to the user, giving the user a false sense of security.


RPC stands for Remote Procedure Call. Simply put, an RPC is what happens when one program sends a message over a network to tell another program to do something. For example, one program can use an RPC to tell another program to calculate the average cost of tea in China and return the answer. The reason it's called a remoteprocedure call is because it doesn't matter if the other program is running on the same machine, another machine in the next cube, or somewhere on the Internet.

RPCs are potential security risks because they are designed to let other computers somewhere on a network to tell your computer what to do. Whenever someone discovers a flaw in an RPC-enabled program, there is the potential for someone with a network-connected computer to exploit the flaw in order to tell your computer what to do. Unfortunately, Windows users cannot disable RPC because Windows depends upon it, even if your computer is not connected to a network. Many Windows services are simply designed that way. In some cases, you can block an RPC port at your firewall, but Windows often depends so heavily on RPC mechanisms for basic functions that this is not always possible. Ironically, some of the most serious vulnerabilities in Windows Server 2003 (see table in section below) are due to flaws in the Windows RPC functions themselves, rather than the applications that use them. The most common way to exploit an RPC-related vulnerability is to attack the service that uses RPC, not RPC itself.


According to the Summer 2004 Evans Data Linux Developers Survey, 93% of Linux developers have experienced two or fewer incidents where a Linux machine was compromised. Eighty-seven percent had experienced only one such incident, and 78% have never had a cracker break into a Linux machine. In the few cases where intruders succeeded, the primary cause was inadequately configured security settings.

More relevant to this discussion, however, is the fact that 92% of those surveyed have never experienced a virus, Trojan, or other malware infection on Linux.

Viruses, Trojans and other malware rarely, if ever, manage to infect Linux systems, in part because:



Linux is based on a long history of well fleshed-out multi-user design
Linux is mostly modular by design
Linux does not depend upon RPC to function, and services are usually configured not to use RPC by default
Linux servers are ideal for headless non-local administration
[/QUOTE]



Keep in mind when reading the summaries below that there are variations in the default configurations of the different distributions of Linux, so what may be true of Red Hat Linux may not be true of Debian and there may be even more differences in SuSE. For the most part, all the major Linux distributions tend to follow sane guidelines in the default configurations.

The full article, explaining better than I ever could, or you could ever beat, is located at: Security Report: Windows vs Linux | The Register (http://www.theregister.co.uk/security/security_report_windows_vs_linux/)

Perma
01-08-2008, 04:01 PM
You're still on about this? If you think Linux can do something that a system running Windows can't, you're absolutely and completely retarded. Obviously you have zero experience with Windows and are yet another Linux zombie, copying and pasting biased material from the internet without any real experience to back it up yourself.

You can argue it all you want, but guess what? Windows is still the number one choice for consumers, software developers, and media outlets. Use Linux, no one cares. You're free to your opinion. But don't start trying to shove it down everyone else's throats because you think you know everything.

It's obvious you don't.

Pete_Zahut
01-08-2008, 04:17 PM
Its because we are all missing Chromozones! :w00t:

Dyndrilliac
01-08-2008, 09:01 PM
I only have two things to say before I stop participating in this thread, for the reason of laziness:

1 - It's amazing how so many statistical anomalies are in my area. Since the vast majority of the world apparently uses Linux, every major network I've actually been on (Every school/lab I ever attended, and every library/cybercafe I've ever been to) must be statistical anomalies, as they all use Windows. It's highly improbable, but the person who can't type coherently says it so it must be true.

2 - It sounds to me like the kid is simply trying to justify the fact that apparently he's dirt poor, lives with his parents, steals his neighbor's internet, and runs a rig that might be able to play pong if you coax it just right. He probably won it in a box of crackerjacks. He's just acting out because he doesn't have a Rock'em Sock'em robot that runs on Windows like the other kids.

YonderKnight
01-08-2008, 09:09 PM
2 - It sounds to me like the kid is simply trying to justify the fact that apparently he's dirt poor, lives with his parents, steals his neighbor's internet, and runs a rig that might be able to play pong if you coax it just right. He probably won it in a box of crackerjacks. He's just acting out because he doesn't have a Rock'em Sock'em robot that runs on Windows like the other kids.

I was thinking the exact same thing!

Degô
01-09-2008, 12:17 PM
Do you know what comunism is? Its the opposite of freedom dumbass.

:lol:

n0.obAtroN
01-10-2008, 01:14 PM
You can argue it all you want, but guess what? Windows is still the number one choice for consumers, software developers, and media outlets. Use Linux, no one cares. You're free to your opinion. But don't start trying to shove it down everyone else's throats because you think you know everything.

You do know I am doing this to get a good laugh outa you idiots, right? I have completely wasted you, and your excuse is that I copy and pasted it?

Well gues what, either way you got wasted.

One more thing, I am shooving it down your throat? Yah lemme tell yah, its on a webpage, it literally jumps right down your throat.

Pete_Zahut
01-10-2008, 02:40 PM
You do know I am doing this to get a good laugh outa you idiots, right? I have completely wasted you, and your excuse is that I copy and pasted it? No.

Well gues what, either way you got wasted. No.

One more thing, I am shooving it down your throat? Yah lemme tell yah, its on a webpage, it literally jumps right down your throat. No.

So if I were to take a line from any of your posts and insert it into Google there wont be any exact matches?

Perma
01-10-2008, 02:41 PM
If by "completely wasted" you mean "killed us with laughter" then you are absolutely correct. Most of your claims are just plain uninformed and the rest are completely biased.

Evidently your comprehension of the English language is about the equivalent to your knowledge of Windows. Shoving your opinion down our throats is a metaphorical reference to your incessant claims that Linux is somehow a superior operating system.

Belphegor
01-10-2008, 04:31 PM
As a Gentoo user, I assure you Linux is full of bugs. And multiple of my friends(Vader and more...), would also say the same. Then again, developing software solely for Linux, you tend to look and find these things.

Polie13
01-10-2008, 06:23 PM
I love Linux, really do, but it has its place, and for everyday usage, most people won't like it. You're an idiot for even trying to argue that, and even stupider for saying Dyn and Perma have no idea what they're talking about; Windows _is_ a superior operating system for most general day usage.

YonderKnight
01-10-2008, 11:52 PM
Do you know what comunism is? Its the opposite of freedom dumbass.

Yah, lemme tell you, its on a webpage, its SOOOO personal.... dumbass, lol.

Are you missing a chromozone?

Heh, you're getting laughs out of us?

StarteR2
01-14-2008, 07:48 AM
trying to run boswars 2.4.1 on ubuntu and get error log:



X Error of failed request: BadAlloc (insufficient resources for operation)
Major opcode of failed request: 141 (XVideo)
Minor opcode of failed request: 19 ()
Serial number of failed request: 27
Current serial number in output stream: 28
am i missing something?


[email protected]:~$ uname -a
Linux starter2-laptop 2.6.20-16-generic #2 SMP Thu Jun 7 20:19:32 UTC 2007 i686 GNU/Linux



P.S. The first screenshort, whats the games names? Yeah i know its chess, more details please.

Azu
01-24-2008, 04:55 AM
Well, youíve seen a lot of posts on this site about Linux and Free and Open Source Software on this very site. Mostly all of it has been pro-Linux. So here, to balance the scales, is the other side of the story! :woop:Now time for some counter-balance;

No Games! Or at least, not many games to speak of. No, I donít mean running an emulator to support Windows games. No, I donít mean the emulators for arcade and Nintendo. I want to play, not emulate. Native, platform games, made for it and working with it. No, I donít mean some text-mode rogue thing or the nerdy little puzzle games that come with Gnome and KDE. When will Linux decide to pay more attention to the FUN side?Sorry but this isn't a problem with Linux.
If game makers didn't make games for Windows, it would be just as game-deprived as Linux.
This is a problem with the game makers.

Chasing Windows. Seriously, itís nice that most distros went from all the command and console stuff to a full desktop-capable system like Macs and Windows. Now it needs to find its own look. Too many distros out there are trying to be a perfect clone of Windows XP; if I want XP, I know where to find it. Get Linux over its insecurity complex and have it make up its own ďlook and feelĒ already!Again, not a problem with Linux. Not a problem at all in fact. So what if you think Windows XP looks simular to a Linux distro? If that's really a bad thing, then you're saying that Windows is bad lol.

All the hardware is supported - except mine. Can I get this digital camera working? 800 drivers for digital cameras - nope mine isnít on the list. What about this wireless card? Dozens of brands supported - whoops, I bought the wrong one! Iím tired of playing hardware bingo - either Iím very unlucky at it, or thereís still some big holes to fill.Again, this has nothing to do with Linux. It's up to the hardware manufacturers to provide working drivers. If they didn't provide working drivers for Windows, then there would be the same problem in Windows. This is a problem with the hardware manufacturers.

Problems coming up to a desktop. At least detect good default settings for a monitor and video card, and then give me an easy way to fix the size and color depth if I need to. Many, many distros do this, so the ones that donít and either haul off and boot me to a plaid striped letterbox screen or leave me at a console trying to guess what my monitorís vertical refresh rate is are even guiltier by comparison. Itís all open source, so the distros that get it wrong can just borrow from the ones that get it right, right?I've never run into this problem, I don't know anyone who has run into this problem, and I don't know what's wrong with just switching to a distro that works perfectly for you. It's not like they cost any money or take a lot of effort to download.

Inner-Linux flame wars. KDE vs. Gnome! Emacs vs. vi! Ubuntu vs. Mandriva! All of these are fought just as feverishly as if theyÖ. cost money. Hey, youíre giving it all away for free, so who cares what anybody uses?Wow. That's like saying "Windows sucks because people who use windows vista and people who use windows xp argue over which is better". Do I even need to reply to this? lol..

FOSS Purity. OK, I loaded a closed-source driver onto my system so my video card will work. Do I have to be nailed to a wall for it? Yes, I know open source is the One True Way - and if all the drivers are open one day, that will make me very happy. In the mean time, I care about what works first. Ditto the haggling over licenses - thereís forty of them, most of them differ in one or two details, and thinking about legal stuff gives the user side of me a headache.Again, wow. That's like saying "Halo sucks because there are people who like halo who say halo is the best". rofl..

Obsession over taking over from Windows. When is the year of Linux on the desktop? Who cares? Look, again, youíre giving it away for free, so if you take over 98% of Microsoftís market share, you are ahead exactly how far?You're right. This is clearly a problem with the operating system called "Linux",
...
SARCASM...

Linux devotees are too serious. Because you canít post a list like this and not have a bunch of them come flame you. Lighten up. Your systemís fine. We love you. Youíre big enough now to take your beating along with the other platforms[/LIST]So if someone who uses Windows is serious, that would mean Windows sucks?
... so either your post is a joke, or Windows sucks.





Whatever, thanks for the laughs. I actually feel BETTER about Linux after reading your post.
It seems that it was actually intended to be a critique, and yet you couldn't even find a single thing wrong with Linux.

You are aware that you have only made Linux look better, right?


By the way, I don't even use Linux anymore, so don't even bother posting an "lol ur opinion dun count cuz ur a fanboi lolololol" retort.

Azu
01-24-2008, 04:57 AM
Windows has much less hassle than linux. Sure linux is more stable and more straight to the point, but it requires too much effort for the casual pc user.So Windows is like porn and Linux is like a girlfriend?

Perma
01-24-2008, 12:41 PM
So Windows is like porn and Linux is like a girlfriend?

That made me giggle, but please watch your double-posts.

ulliklliwi
02-13-2008, 02:34 PM
Well, youíve seen a lot of posts on this site about Linux and Free and Open Source Software on this very site. Mostly all of it has been pro-Linux. So here, to balance the scales, is the other side of the story! :woop:

No Games! Or at least, not many games to speak of. No, I donít mean running an emulator to support Windows games. No, I donít mean the emulators for arcade and Nintendo. I want to play, not emulate. Native, platform games, made for it and working with it. No, I donít mean some text-mode rogue thing or the nerdy little puzzle games that come with Gnome and KDE. When will Linux decide to pay more attention to the FUN side?
Chasing Windows. Seriously, itís nice that most distros went from all the command and console stuff to a full desktop-capable system like Macs and Windows. Now it needs to find its own look. Too many distros out there are trying to be a perfect clone of Windows XP; if I want XP, I know where to find it. Get Linux over its insecurity complex and have it make up its own ďlook and feelĒ already!
All the hardware is supported - except mine. Can I get this digital camera working? 800 drivers for digital cameras - nope mine isnít on the list. What about this wireless card? Dozens of brands supported - whoops, I bought the wrong one! Iím tired of playing hardware bingo - either Iím very unlucky at it, or thereís still some big holes to fill.
Problems coming up to a desktop. At least detect good default settings for a monitor and video card, and then give me an easy way to fix the size and color depth if I need to. Many, many distros do this, so the ones that donít and either haul off and boot me to a plaid striped letterbox screen or leave me at a console trying to guess what my monitorís vertical refresh rate is are even guiltier by comparison. Itís all open source, so the distros that get it wrong can just borrow from the ones that get it right, right?
Inner-Linux flame wars. KDE vs. Gnome! Emacs vs. vi! Ubuntu vs. Mandriva! All of these are fought just as feverishly as if theyÖ. cost money. Hey, youíre giving it all away for free, so who cares what anybody uses?
FOSS Purity. OK, I loaded a closed-source driver onto my system so my video card will work. Do I have to be nailed to a wall for it? Yes, I know open source is the One True Way - and if all the drivers are open one day, that will make me very happy. In the mean time, I care about what works first. Ditto the haggling over licenses - thereís forty of them, most of them differ in one or two details, and thinking about legal stuff gives the user side of me a headache.
Obsession over taking over from Windows. When is the year of Linux on the desktop? Who cares? Look, again, youíre giving it away for free, so if you take over 98% of Microsoftís market share, you are ahead exactly how far?
Linux devotees are too serious. Because you canít post a list like this and not have a bunch of them come flame you. Lighten up. Your systemís fine. We love you. Youíre big enough now to take your beating along with the other platforms

1. just because u misconfigure or just plan configure ur linux box or even use a noob linux distro like redhat or Ubuntu. Doesnt mean u cant run Windows platform game on linux. I just happen to run all kind of windows games on my linux box. mostly 3D game like, battlefield 1942 and bf2, starcraft. never had any problems.

2. first off its not called console or commandline its called a "TERMINAL". 2nd its not a desktop system it just happens to be a program called "X SERVER". 3rd MAC just happends to be OpenBSD aka UNIX with a GUI. 4th linux distro arent not trying to look like winXP, its noobs like that install gnome, so they cant lost, or be like omfg how did i change this or that.

3. All hardware is support, if u knew a thing about linux is wouldnt be a problem. you easily convert ur PE binary files to linux source or a linux binary file. More then likely you just didnt load the drivers in aka modprobe them.

4. all you have to do is edit or "X server" settings.

5. well KDE vs gnome, lke saying LINUX pros (KDE) vs LINUX NOOBS (gnome). and the whole war for different distro there all noob distros, but for Mandriva. Mandriva been around for a long time. and then comes these noob distros. its like windows trying to a linux (which they are aka redhat and some other one). whos going to trust a linux distro windows made. the only people that will do that is windows noobs.

7. BTW linux isnt free, just the true source code of linux is free. u have to pay for all distro, but thoses distro have for version of there distro. for a desktop, i dont think linux we will where windows is. But for a server, LINUX/UNIX is number one for that and windows will never win. about 2/3 or servers linux and unix and the other 1/3 is windows. the mostly used web server just happens to be apache. Y linux, well when u have open source for server, people can easily find exploit and get them patched faster then windows ever will.

n0.obAtroN
02-15-2008, 02:11 PM
Linux is like building blocks, to get a structure you have to build. The thing that makes linux linux is the fact that it is open source, and customizable. You can get it to run anything, on anything, and for anything, IF you know how.

The way the unix operating system was developed and is now shaped, was based off the idea of freedom. If you know how, you can. It is free, and the source available. This is true freedom, but most desktop users don't know how to harness it.

There are two big "problems" linux has been very disliked for: #1. The commercial companies under support. #2. Its complexity, resulting from its customizability.

In order to Jerry-rig all this code to work on every platform, and slap it into one installer is a hard task to undertake. The installers are usually very limited in their support for detecting certain hardware and installing/configuring it. 99.9% of the time that something does not work on a HD installed UNIX OS is the result of a misconfiguration, not a bug. On a correctly configured computer running gentoo, I can play games on a PC w/ a 400 MHz CPU, where in most other operating systems would require 1.5 GHz CPU (if not more). Most users do not know how to configure it right, so they turn to the automatic installer. This results in misconfigurations, making the user unhappy.

The fact that UNIX OS's tend to be so customizable is the real downfall, and yet the thing that makes linux linux. For a company to port their code to UNIX, and have it support all the hardware/system types is very hard (when considering money). By the time you add in the money to port it, customer support because the code doesn't properly support a certain system, and the few people who would buy it, it is far cheaper to just ignore the open source world.

Other than these to flaws, linux is the uber awesome ultimate operating system. We are working on it, and when we fix these, you too can enjoy the linux world too. Remember, we do this for the public good, for YOU, so please dont flame us to much ;)

Thank you, n0.obAtroN

ulliklliwi
02-15-2008, 10:00 PM
Linux is like building blocks, to get a structure you have to build. The thing that makes linux linux is the fact that it is open source, and customizable. You can get it to run anything, on anything, and for anything, IF you know how.

The way the unix operating system was developed and is now shaped, was based off the idea of freedom. If you know how, you can. It is free, and the source available. This is true freedom, but most desktop users don't know how to harness it.

There are two big "problems" linux has been very disliked for: #1. The commercial companies under support. #2. Its complexity, resulting from its customizability.

In order to Jerry-rig all this code to work on every platform, and slap it into one installer is a hard task to undertake. The installers are usually very limited in their support for detecting certain hardware and installing/configuring it. 99.9% of the time that something does not work on a HD installed UNIX OS is the result of a misconfiguration, not a bug. On a correctly configured computer running gentoo, I can play games on a PC w/ a 400 MHz CPU, where in most other operating systems would require 1.5 GHz CPU (if not more). Most users do not know how to configure it right, so they turn to the automatic installer. This results in misconfigurations, making the user unhappy.

The fact that UNIX OS's tend to be so customizable is the real downfall, and yet the thing that makes linux linux. For a company to port their code to UNIX, and have it support all the hardware/system types is very hard (when considering money). By the time you add in the money to port it, customer support because the code doesn't properly support a certain system, and the few people who would buy it, it is far cheaper to just ignore the open source world.

Other than these to flaws, linux is the uber awesome ultimate operating system. We are working on it, and when we fix these, you too can enjoy the linux world too. Remember, we do this for the public good, for YOU, so please dont flame us to much ;)

Thank you, n0.obAtroN

so far microsoft only supports 2 linux distros that i know oh, Witch are Red HAT and Novell SuSE (not the OpenSuSE).

Also there is DSL linux that witch u can inside of windows. its like a Virtual OS.

Also if ur into the future of computer, you may want to check out

Microsoft Virtual Server 2005 R2 (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserversystem/virtualserver/)

Now u can run linux and Any version of windows, all at the same time. Heres the download for Linux Download details: VM Additions for Linux (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=BF12642F-77DC-4D45-AE4E-E1B05E0A2674&displaylang=en)

Has
Enterprise distributions

* Red Hat Enterprise Linux 2.1 (update 7)
* Red Hat Enterprise Linux 3.0 (update 8)
* Red Hat Enterprise Linux 4.0 (update 4)
* Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5.0
* SuSE Linux Enterprise Server 9.0
* SuSE Linux Enterprise Server 10.0



Standard distributions

* Red Hat Linux 9.0
* SuSE Linux 9.3
* SuSE Linux 10.0
* SuSE Linux 10.1
* SuSE Linux 10.2

Degô
02-16-2008, 01:10 PM
Linux is like building blocks, to get a structure you have to build. The thing that makes linux linux is the fact that it is open source, and customizable. You can get it to run anything, on anything, and for anything, IF you know how.

The way the unix operating system was developed and is now shaped, was based off the idea of freedom. If you know how, you can. It is free, and the source available. This is true freedom, but most desktop users don't know how to harness it.

There are two big "problems" linux has been very disliked for: #1. The commercial companies under support. #2. Its complexity, resulting from its customizability.

In order to Jerry-rig all this code to work on every platform, and slap it into one installer is a hard task to undertake. The installers are usually very limited in their support for detecting certain hardware and installing/configuring it. 99.9% of the time that something does not work on a HD installed UNIX OS is the result of a misconfiguration, not a bug. On a correctly configured computer running gentoo, I can play games on a PC w/ a 400 MHz CPU, where in most other operating systems would require 1.5 GHz CPU (if not more). Most users do not know how to configure it right, so they turn to the automatic installer. This results in misconfigurations, making the user unhappy.

The fact that UNIX OS's tend to be so customizable is the real downfall, and yet the thing that makes linux linux. For a company to port their code to UNIX, and have it support all the hardware/system types is very hard (when considering money). By the time you add in the money to port it, customer support because the code doesn't properly support a certain system, and the few people who would buy it, it is far cheaper to just ignore the open source world.

Other than these to flaws, linux is the uber awesome ultimate operating system. We are working on it, and when we fix these, you too can enjoy the linux world too. Remember, we do this for the public good, for YOU, so please dont flame us to much ;)

Thank you, n0.obAtroN

Do you just come back off of your Mod Previews to post in this thread?

Pete_Zahut
02-16-2008, 07:43 PM
No, he subscribes to it and gets notified everytime someone posts

Azu
02-18-2008, 10:37 PM
No, he subscribes to it and gets notified everytime someone postsGood idea!

Mixter
08-17-2008, 03:10 PM
It's sure man, If you try to install Slackware for the first time, you should be a bit disturbed.
Try Ubuntu (one CD), I never had any problem with my Stuffs on It, and install Wine Wine (http://www.winehq.org/)

Right now you have a powerful free-windows stable edition. :D hf